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Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

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Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#181

Post by BurningFrog »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #169
tetromino_ wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I moved to New York for a job, I spent over a month in an Airbnb while searching for more permanent accomodations. My roommates in the Airbnb were all in a similar situations, needing a place to stay for 1-6 months. Without the Airbnb, where would we have gone? A hotel? But a hotel with a useable kitchen and good wifi would have been too expensive for any of us renting one of those rooms.

Historically, there was a type of lodging that seems almost perfectly suited to this situation: a boarding house. At least in my southern US city, the last of the ones here were legislated out of existence in the 80s and 90s as part of the war on drugs.

It's a pretty amazing pattern:

1. Poor people are living in crappy conditions in boarding houses.

2. We solve this problem by banning boarding houses.

3. Now poor people are living in the streets.

4. ...and we're OK with this! Best I can tell, it's because now there is now no landlord profiting on the poor!!

There are plenty of similar examples.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#182

Post by jareklupinski »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #89

I'm really hoping that at some point a "conscientious" airbnb competitor would appear. Maybe something implementing a few basic (naive?) rules: 1. A property cannot be listed for more than 120 days a year.' 2. One cannot list more than 2 properties. So limiting to people that aren't actually making a business out of bnb's.

couchsurfing was fun for a while

turns out the problem was money all along

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#183

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

lgessler wrote: post #55
stickfigure wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tourists are people too. This really seems like an extreme version of nativism.

Is it really right to equate a tourist's interest in accommodation with a resident's interest in a strong community?

Or a person's interest to have the means to be a part of production without spending their entire life commuting?

I'm sorry - I don't think we should build a million skyscrapers in Kethum, Idaho and Jackson Hole, Wyoming so that tourists can enjoy it more cheaply.

I do think we should build more housing in major cities.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#184

Post by lupire »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #169
tetromino_ wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I moved to New York for a job, I spent over a month in an Airbnb while searching for more permanent accomodations. My roommates in the Airbnb were all in a similar situations, needing a place to stay for 1-6 months. Without the Airbnb, where would we have gone? A hotel? But a hotel with a useable kitchen and good wifi would have been too expensive for any of us renting one of those rooms.

Historically, there was a type of lodging that seems almost perfectly suited to this situation: a boarding house. At least in my southern US city, the last of the ones here were legislated out of existence in the 80s and 90s as part of the war on drugs.

They are called apodments now.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#185

Post by hogFeast »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #115
cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

> But AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem. The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. The incentives aren't difficult: Create an anonymous tip line to report illegal AirBnB operations that violate zoning regulations. Have submitters provide the street address and URL of the AirBnB to make it easy. The person operating the AirBnB (or owner of the house…

There is a lack of funding for enforcement. Where I am, the AirBnB market is huge, has led to unprecedented house price growth, and there were already rules requiring short-stay properties to be licensed...85% of properties on AirBnb aren't licensed, and department is a handful of people that are somehow meant to monitor tens of thousands of properties. I have heard of councils employing people to check but that means: looking at properties online, going to the area, trying to work out where they are, finding out where the property owner is (AirBnb have said they will refuse to comply with any requests from local govt).

The rules have been made more solid now. They are introducing a very punitive fine and some areas can have no short-term rentals but AirBnb has thrived because they exploited regulation. Local govt has to be in control (although where I am, the reason they didn't introduce anything even stricter is because the tourist economy is so large...so...it is tricky when there is money coming in).

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#186

Post by drusepth »

threatofrain wrote: post #124
afthonos wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, it’s an issue of reach. AirBnB is the place to book non-hotel accommodations. Anyone who wants to can put their room or flat on there, and everyone who wants to find one knows where to look.

So is the problem that the airbnb app is too good? And the craigslist world is okay?

This sounds surprisingly similar to the (old) anti-Uber argument wrt taxis.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#187

Post by Pet_Ant »

michaelpb wrote: post #137
cletus wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is increased enforcement of the laws that make these illegal. Great idea. Let's fine AirBnB $50,000 per unit per year they knowingly rent out in NYC where they know such things are illegal. Don't go after the users (those using AirBnB) or the street dealers (those listing individual units). Go after the cartel that knowingly engages in illegal activity on a massive scale. That'll sort out the problem r…

Yeah, I think people have a very binary view of "criminal enterprises" vs "corporations", like they can only be people who dress in pin-stripe suits and carry tommy guns and say "lookee here, see" a lot, but a tech company can be a criminal enterprise just as much as anything else. Any company that makes money by violating the law, or encouraging it's habitual violation, is a criminal enterprise by definition (at lea…

You mean like Uber? They violated… and people would be pissed to see them go. So companies hope to be the rule breaker that gets too big to fail.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#188

Post by forrestthewoods »

cletus wrote: post #33

A common quote on HN (and one that I firmly believe in) is: > It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. This so applies to AirBnB. It's not salary per se but those that benefit by renting out units or those for whom this has saved them money I've found typically get so defensive about AirBnB to the point of calling detractors NIMBYists and the like. I'…

> AirBnB is clearly used to create illegal hotels and that's the problem

I agree. It shouldn’t be illegal.

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#189

Post by michaelpb »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #187
michaelpb wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think people have a very binary view of "criminal enterprises" vs "corporations", like they can only be people who dress in pin-stripe suits and carry tommy guns and say "lookee here, see" a lot, but a tech company can be a criminal enterprise just as much as anything else. Any company that makes money by violating the law, or encouraging it's habitual violation, is a criminal enterprise by definition (at lea…

You mean like Uber? They violated… and people would be pissed to see them go. So companies hope to be the rule breaker that gets too big to fail.

Yeah, though unfortunately some companies are big enough now to change the laws they violate [1]

[1] https://abc7.com/22-california-prop-2020-ca-what-is/7585005/

Re: Airbnb raises violent crime rates in cities as residents are pushed out

#190

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

andrepd wrote: post #99
cracker_jacks wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the difficulty of increasing supply has directly led to increased home prices.

This is a mantra often repeated on hn when anythig related to housing comes up, but is it true? Many cities around the world have experienced the airbnb effect or similar: demand from tourists which can pay better means higher demand and lower supply as houses are converted into tourism accommodation. This is also also the mechanism of gentrification in general, so it's not just tourism.

Most AirBNBs - like most rentals - in desirable places are actually heavily cash-flow negative.

This only works because you can count on the Fed constantly lowering interest rates and pumping up your investment on 5:1 leverage.

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