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Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#181

Post by acmj »

kragen wrote: post #129
acabal wrote: post #36

I don't understand all the negativity around this. People complained when Firefox added Pocket, in part because they took a browser extension and made it a feature that was ostensibly unrelated to web browsing. Now they're taking an old feature that's definitely not related to web browsing and removing it, and people are still complaining? Firefox can't be everything. It should focus on being a great browser and not…

FTP has been related to web browsing since the beginning of the web 31 years ago. For maybe a decade (the first third of the web so far), most of the WWW was on FTP servers—not just most software downloads, but also most HTML pages. Web browsers are a much better interface to FTP servers than dedicated FTP clients, because you can click a link on an HTML page (either a statically generated directory, possibly on the…

It has driven me mad that the tech world no longer cares about backward compatibility. Sometimes breaking backward compatibility may be justified by a steep cost on maintenance, but this FTP removal? It hurts a sizeable user base with little benefit on their end.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#182

Post by antisol »

tkzed49 wrote: post #104
tyingq wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's old, but "ftp://" is a valid uri scheme that has established use, and lots of valid links on existing, live web pages. Browsers removing support are breaking part of the web that was working fine.

There are lots of URI schemes in use. Firefox removing support for FTP doesn't mean that you can no longer open FTP links from Firefox, it just means that they'll need to open in another client. I don't see how this breaks the web.

Which FTP client will most people see? i.e the one that's installed by default on most people's computers?

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#183

Post by zamadatix »

attractivechaos wrote: post #167
acabal wrote: post #36

I don't understand all the negativity around this. People complained when Firefox added Pocket, in part because they took a browser extension and made it a feature that was ostensibly unrelated to web browsing. Now they're taking an old feature that's definitely not related to web browsing and removing it, and people are still complaining? Firefox can't be everything. It should focus on being a great browser and not…

> People using FTP can use a dedicated client, of which there are plenty on every platform FTP is used often in my field. The removal of FTP from both Chrome and FireFox has been very inconvenient. I tried a few free FTP clients with GUI. They are huge and clumsy in comparison to browsers. For example, cyberduck zip is as large as firefox and I couldn't copy-paste a ftp:// URL in FileZilla. I wonder why these FTP cli…

> I couldn't copy-paste a ftp:// URL in FileZilla

You should be able to paste a full ftp://server.tld/path into the host field and upon connection it'll drop you right into that folder.

As for why the GUIs aren't that great I think it's precisely because FTP was made with CLI in mind and by the time good GUIs came around there were better protocols to plug into them.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#184

Post by floatboth »

handrous wrote: post #128
mmastrac wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not rsync, scp, https, or any other plethora of much better alternatives?

The former two (rsync, scp) are a lot more complex than ftp(s), since they both rely on at least some subset of ssh, plus some other stuff. They're not really suited for safely linking to unauthenticated downloads, either. https doesn't let you also manage your files with the same protocol/daemon without other stuff on top of, or alongside, it.

When is the "complexity" of SSH ever a problem? If you need a tiny implementation for an embedded device, use dropbear instead of OpenSSH.

WebDAV lets you manage files over the same protocol (but.. why?)

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#185

Post by mattl »

layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #171
TheRealPomax wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, really gonna need some numbers here, though, because literally no one I know younger than 40 even knows what FTP is, let alone having used it. Even Apache 1 can expose dirs over http instead of ftp, there is literally no reason for FTP unless you want uploads. In which case: no you don't, you want sftp at the very least, because you care about the fact that you want data that gets uploaded to be your data, not…

I'm 30 years old and using FTP daily.

For what? What client?

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#186

Post by grumblenum »

acabal wrote: post #36

I don't understand all the negativity around this. People complained when Firefox added Pocket, in part because they took a browser extension and made it a feature that was ostensibly unrelated to web browsing. Now they're taking an old feature that's definitely not related to web browsing and removing it, and people are still complaining? Firefox can't be everything. It should focus on being a great browser and not…

Pocket is ad-tech that nobody wanted. FTP is, for some, a useful feature. The negativity is because Mozilla maintains a façade of selflessly serving the little guy but then it removes an existing, working feature that makes it a little easier not to use surveillance-focused file-sharing services like Google Drive. The animosity Mozilla receives from its users has been well earned.

> A modern web browser is probably some of the most complex software humanity has invented yet, besides a full-scale OS.

And whose fault is that, if not WHATWG?

Embrance. Extend. Extinguish.

--------------------- ^ [The web is here]

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#187

Post by antisol »

johnebgd wrote: post #78
tyingq wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's old, but "ftp://" is a valid uri scheme that has established use, and lots of valid links on existing, live web pages. Browsers removing support are breaking part of the web that was working fine.

Agreed. There are old drivers from established vendors that only send drivers over FTP links. It's an edge case these days though as more are moving to https:// links so I can understand the browser vendors wanting to make the code base smaller. They have enough to do. Especially for Mozilla given what they charge for us to use their product.

>I can understand the browser vendors wanting to make the code base smaller.

That's an excellent point...

...So they'll be removing their builtin pdf viewer first then, right? That's a much much bigger chunk of code than an ftp client. Or are they both scheduled to be removed at the same time? I suppose that would be reasonable.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#188

Post by wizzwizz4 »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #121
nashashmi wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understand this: ftp has been with the browser for 25 years. Ftp has been with the web. Ftp is part of the web. No one cares that ftp is not really what browsers are made for. Browsers is how people access ftp. That’s it. And they have been used in of web pages too.

Yeah, really gonna need some numbers here, though, because literally no one I know younger than 40 even knows what FTP is, let alone having used it. Even Apache 1 can expose dirs over http instead of ftp, there is literally no reason for FTP unless you want uploads. In which case: no you don't, you want sftp at the very least, because you care about the fact that you want data that gets uploaded to be your data, not…

> because literally no one I know younger than 40 even knows what FTP is, let alone having used it.

How many of them know what TLS is? Yet they've probably used it. With computers, you don't need to know what something is to have used it.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#189

Post by hulitu »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #121
nashashmi wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understand this: ftp has been with the browser for 25 years. Ftp has been with the web. Ftp is part of the web. No one cares that ftp is not really what browsers are made for. Browsers is how people access ftp. That’s it. And they have been used in of web pages too.

Yeah, really gonna need some numbers here, though, because literally no one I know younger than 40 even knows what FTP is, let alone having used it. Even Apache 1 can expose dirs over http instead of ftp, there is literally no reason for FTP unless you want uploads. In which case: no you don't, you want sftp at the very least, because you care about the fact that you want data that gets uploaded to be your data, not…

no one I know younger than 40 even knows what http or https is. Https can also be MITM.

Re: Stopping FTP support in Firefox 90

#190

Post by hulitu »

Rd6n6 wrote: post #65
acabal wrote: post #36

I don't understand all the negativity around this. People complained when Firefox added Pocket, in part because they took a browser extension and made it a feature that was ostensibly unrelated to web browsing. Now they're taking an old feature that's definitely not related to web browsing and removing it, and people are still complaining? Firefox can't be everything. It should focus on being a great browser and not…

Mozilla is struggling and is trying to focus its resources in a way that will let them build sustainable revenue and browser share. I hope they succeed

RIP Mozilla. It's a shame that at the beginning the browser was pretty good.
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