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Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

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Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#181

Post by doctorbaum »

biscotte_ wrote: post #163
ethbr0 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both India and the US also had their bloody moments to make it happen, in the Partition (and then Bangladesh Liberation War) and Civil War respectively.

True, but there have been many attempts to create Europe in the past, the 3rd Reich being one of them, Napoleon, and others before. Europhiles dont like that reminder but people at the time used the same rethoric of “building the great Europe”, “nations are too old etc”, I can give you references of actual political figures of the 30s and 40s who had that speech and led their country to collaboration with the nazis i…

> I can give you references of actual political figures of the 30s and 40s who had that speech and led their country to collaboration with the nazis in the name of “Europe”.

I would love to (interested in the topic)

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#182

Post by fighterpilot »

WanderPanda wrote: post #130
roenxi wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there is a part of the population that is radicalized and hate rhetoric is used that will destabilize any society. I'm going to point at this as an example of a very traditional, very political example unproductive thinking. One of the lessons people refuse to see in politics is that the people who vote for things they don't like might, potentially, be upset about something. There is a lack of reflection on how…

How can win-lose (lets say in the expected value) deals exist when the participants are free to partake or abstain from the deal?

In this context, they meant to say "outcome", not "deal".

However, win-lose deals can indeed happen, although they're rather rare. Consider the example of diminsmished agency, e.g a fentanyl addict "choosing" to buy more fentanyl. Or consider agency conflicts of interests or information asymmetries as examples where deals can turn out to be win-lose.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#183

Post by b0rsuk »

inglor_cz wrote: post #108
scotty79 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if conspired is the right word. Poland just has very strong sympathy for Hungary as a country and its people. Poland has nothing to do with Orban and wants nothing to do with Orban. Unfortunately we have our own populists that like Orban wants to remodel our country to be easier for them to rule as they please. And results are similar as with Orban in Hungary and threats to that from EU are the same so c…

"Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki." (Pole and Hungarian — two brothers, good for saber and for glass.) Some countries in the EU have better relations than others. Czechs and Slovaks, the three Baltic nations, and Poland and Hungary. Things must get really bad before they will stop having each other's back on the international scene. This is a historical and diplomatic fact that must be taken in…

Poland has common geopolitical interests with nordic countries like Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark. Hungarian strategy of playing both sides can work because Hungary is not between the hammer and the anvil. And the languages are radically different. "Gulasz" and "Dobosz" are not enough. If you ask 100 Poles on the street, you won't find 1 that can count to ten in Hungarian. Finnish is an equally hard language and there are common values and sentiments between Poland and Finland, for example wars against Russia. Simo Hayha is pretty well known.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#184

Post by pasabagi »

pjc50 wrote: post #170
roenxi wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there is a part of the population that is radicalized and hate rhetoric is used that will destabilize any society. I'm going to point at this as an example of a very traditional, very political example unproductive thinking. One of the lessons people refuse to see in politics is that the people who vote for things they don't like might, potentially, be upset about something. There is a lack of reflection on how…

> the people who vote for things they don't like might, potentially, be upset about something Yes, but is the thing they're upset about and the thing they're directing their anger towards actually linked? It's often hugely successful in politics to say "all your problems are the fault of this external bad actor" rather than " we have a problem and it's going to take a lot of hard work to fix it". It's very easy to bl…

> en masse in Eastern Europe

Is Germany in Eastern Europe now?

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#185

Post by NicoJuicy »

Hokusai wrote: post #60
poisonborz wrote: post #28

If there is one single lasting international effect of Orbán and his party, it's how he demonstrated how EU is completely helpless against rouge states (as well). The delicate political balance of its parliamental politics make it impossible to react to any complex, even if lethal threats. The EU funds and fuels a Belorussian-style regime in its own heartland for a decade now, and all they can do are angry notices an…

> EU is completely helpless against rouge states There is a point where politics depend on good intent. It does not matter if it is the EU, USA or China. If there is a part of the population that is radicalized and hate rhetoric is used that will destabilize any society. The main defense against this situation is that it does not work to improve citizens lives. It only benefits a small part of society and it will mak…

As far as I'm aware ( source Hungarian people), entire families voted for him because he was strongly opposing migrants.

All the other shit he does, they deem less important. It's ridiculous.

Hungary should go out of the EU or be forced out. The lack of obeying rules and abusing subsidies for own gain should be enough reason. Hungarians should outweigh pro's and cons, it's already a decade...

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#188

Post by andrepd »

joelbluminator wrote: post #81
mola wrote: post #39

All of Netanyahu's allies in the world seem to have profited from this relationship by obtaining military grade surveillance inorder to suppress human rights of journalists and opposition. This is Netanyahu's legacy, a proto dictator, arming dictators. I'm convince pegasus was used against Israeli journalists, opposition leaders and law enforcement officials. Too bad our political system is still under his thumb and…

Hungary aside, most of Israel's allies in the region are dictatorships, actaully all of them: Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Morocco (arguably, let's agree it's not a liberal democracy) and so on and so on. There are zero democracies in the area. So it's easy to see Israel's interest in supplying technology to those regimes and assuring good relations; it's not like the oppositions to these dictators are any bette…

> So it's easy to see Israel's interest in supplying technology to those regimes and assuring good relations;

It's easy to see that it's in my interest to kill a woman on an unlit street and nick her purse. What kind of argument is this??

It's especially aggravating since so much propaganda comes out touting Israel as a democracy and decrying the savage Palestinians for being a dictatorship.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#189

Post by johnnycerberus »

reader_mode wrote: post #107
_hzrk wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with the EU handling of COVID crisis? We have vaccinated more people than the US and there was no major breakout since summer 2020. In constrast with the UK where restrictions have been draconic.

EU botched acquiring vaccine compares to most developed countries by months, in no small part due to the retarded mindset that pharma companies shouldn't profit off of this and trying to renegotiate prices forever (overriding some countries who tried to acquire it individually and would have gotten it faster). Measures were not dictated by EU, each country decided it's own policy.

Pharma companies should not profit off pandemics. It is an ethical thing to do. And beside that, I know that drug companies are heavily subsidised by state and their research is mostly done with tax-exempt money.

Re: Hungarian journalists and critics of Orbán were targeted with Pegasus

#190

Post by andrepd »

joelbluminator wrote: post #161
himinlomax wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are zero democracies in the area Lebanon used to be more democratic; Iran was democratic at one point. What happened to Mossadegh?

Neither of them was democratic as in liberal, free press, human rights etc etc. Iran afaik was a full blown dictatorship before the islamic revolution (it's still a dictatorship, but different), Lebanon's history is more complicated but I stand by my view that it was never a liberal democracy, definitely not in the last 40 years.

>Iran afaik was a full blown dictatorship before the islamic revolution

Yes, but he was talking about before that wasn't he? Iran was a democracy (flawed, but still) before the US–UK alliance overthrew the parliamentary system and installed a puppet dictator, to keep stealing their oil.

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