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Under the skin of OnlyFans

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Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#181
I think most of these problems stem from the fact that the lack of moderation and easy termination of subscriptions is exactly what has made only fans possible as a platform.

When a website starts moderating user generated content, its legal status changes and suddenly the company could be held responsible for what happens on the platform. On a platform that's used mainly for sex work (which is still strictly legal in many countries around the world!), that distinction may be all that stands between fines, bans or even jail time, even in what would be considered more progressive countries.

The easy refunds are essential because the payment provider networks will drop you the moment you get too many chargebacks filed against you. The sex industry in general has a problem getting payment from most credit card providers, because people will often do chargebacks when their significant other/family/friends find out about statements on their credit cards, increasing the risk for the payment provider. There's also a certain sense of puritanism in many payment providers, especially American ones from what I've read, and that doesn't help.

As for copying and sharing illicit material, that's a risk that comes with selling any digital media. OnlyFans can't do anything about that. The biggest entertainment companies in the world have tried, and high quality rips from Disney+ and Netflix still reach the web.

In general, OnlyFans is a blessing and a curse. A blessing in that it brings freedom to individuals to perform sex work from the safety and comfort of their own home, without shady back alley deals whatsoever.

However, it's also a curse because popularisation of sex work inevitably reinforces the sexualisation (mostly) of women. Easy websites also have little to prevent abuse from forced sex work, and I'm sure the scum willing to trade human beings and force them into brothels have seen the opportunities here. Lastly, easy entrance to sex work might lead to more people joining in reluctantly because they see no other way to pay for rent or education.

Sex workers are part of any society, have been for all of history and will probably always be in the future. I don't see that as a problem, as long as people do it out of their own volition. However, these websites don't exist in a vacuum, and as long as others stigmatise sex work, joining the industry will come with certain risks for exposure and blackmail. No platform can prevent social issues, no matter how hard YouTube and Twitter claim they're on top of things like misinformation and illicit material. The problem is simply not one of a technical or a business nature.

Having said that, I'm sure there's a market for DeepFake-style face/environment replacements. Deepfake a convincing face from thispersondoesnotexist.com onto yourself, replace the background with furniture from a similar generator, and you could severely reduce the risks that come with selling explicit media. It still doesn't solve the core problem of blackmail and such (people can and will find out, and stalkers are obsessed enough), but it can reduce the risk of those conscious about their privacy despite the nature of their job.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#182

So our kids are getting older so I've been paying more attention to popular social networks and it's wild how many YouTubers, Twitch'ers, TikTok'ers, Instagram'ers have OF content directly linked from their non-porn bios. I don't like it, but I'm not sure what a good solution is. I mean, people are free to do what they'd like, but it's hard to police screen time 100% of the time and their peer group has a lot more ac…

Have you considered the alternative that this is not an evil which you are unable to control but just another way of living / thinking of sexual content? There is nothing inherently evil about this stuff so why is it terrible that it is becoming more accepted/common? If in 30 years we live in a society where people post nudes like they do facebook posts, is there anything wrong about this? Could you describe the harm…

Gender relations becoming gameified and being turned into monetary micro-transactions is not a net win for society. Women debasing themselves and selling their body to appeal to an army of lonely simps that take refuge in a simulated relationship that is emotionally exploitative is not the kind of healthy pair-bonding I wish for my kids. It is socially corrosive.

> Have you considered the alternative that this is not an evil

We have considered it, and came to the conclusion that it is evil. A society that has its morality purely based on "consent" has accepted its own demise.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#183
post #160
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in general there are some pretty big costs that aren't fully understood to doing sex work, even outside of the social stigma of being found out by your friends and family, there are mental health costs that are often not talked about. A lot of sex workers overtly reinforce social behaviors towards women (sexualization and objectification among other things) in order to appeal to men, which hurts them in the l…

> there are mental health costs that are often not talked about On the contrary, everyone is talking about mental costs, implying that they do not know what they are doing. I know a person who changed her work from being a cashier at a supermarket to a sex worker. Mentally, she benefited a lot. In one job, she felt like an automaton serving people. I other she had personal relationships with her clients. You can gues…

My wife who is a sex worker is in therapy provided by her camsite because the work is so toxic. She was as pro-sex-work as you can be when she first started five years ago. It's majority trauma and I have to hear the stories every day.

The men who drive by want to cum as fast as possible with as little damage to their pocketbook as possible. So they drive in, maybe critique her appearance, say, "tits" or "ass" (usually it's just singulars as imperatives), cum, then leave.

She's started keeping a list of clients who say thank you. Almost none.

The far left has really hijacked the discourse around sex work and used language of empowerment to encourage young girls to get in and get what's theirs. Mostly what they're getting is trauma that will haunt them for the rest of their lives.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average monthly payment was $5000 (skewed massively by the top 5%). I used to work in the direct carrier billing department of a large telco and I'm still amazed by the phenomenon of whales. We'd get 98% of people spending 20 bucks on Spotify and the odd app here and there, and then there were people who would consistently spend 15k+ on Candy Crush (and pay their bills). Not the same level as what you're talkin…

> people who would consistently spend 15k+ on Candy Crush (and pay their bills). Sounds like a very successful money laundering operation.

OK, I'm channeling my inner Peter, Michael and Samir here, but how exactly do you launder money by spending it on Candy Crush? Is King supposedly in on the scheme?

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know--as I get older, and see things like this, I can't help but think maybe I'm just turning into an out-of-touch old fart. Maybe norms are simply changing and the next generations are building a better world free of all these stupid taboos and hangups. My ol' grandpa looked at my generation and just didn't understand how we were OK with things like interracial marriage, same sex relationships, drug legaliza…

I don't think I'm merely being a luddite or overly conservative when I say that the exponential rise of parasocial entertainment worries me greatly. There's a rising loneliness epidemic in much of the developed world, and entire industries that profit from selling a virtual simulacrum of the experience of hanging out with friends (Twitch) or intimacy (OnlyFans). Much like Facebook and social media, these products can…

[deleted]

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used to say, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

Seems a bit harsh to call it "stupid". Sex work is work that will always have demand. It sucks that society looks down on it and the market for it is so skewed towards creeps that people feel unsafe doing it and face so much harassment when found out

Welcome to reality.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#187
post #117
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in general there are some pretty big costs that aren't fully understood to doing sex work, even outside of the social stigma of being found out by your friends and family, there are mental health costs that are often not talked about. A lot of sex workers overtly reinforce social behaviors towards women (sexualization and objectification among other things) in order to appeal to men, which hurts them in the l…

> A lot of sex workers overtly reinforce social behaviors towards women (sexualization and objectification among other things) in order to appeal to men, which hurts them in the long run. This is something that's really been bugging me when looking at Reddit's porn subs. There has been a really noticeable change in the last 2 years. Back then, a majority of the posters seemed to actually be amateurs getting their kic…

Probably bad for the mental health of the men too. As the thread ancestor noted - sometimes "'fan[s]' [go] nuclear and was waging all out digital war.".

I'm guessing that is just a thing some men do but it is bound to be made worse by women correctly figuring out the high-engagement equilibrium is tantalising without promising. But a lot of them probably aren't going to realise that they're dealing with unexploded ordinance; that could foreseeably lead to some spectacular meltdowns for men who were already mental health edge cases when it dawns on them that their time is being wasted.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#188
post #154

I was surprised why OnlyFans is so popular. All in all, there is no shortage of free erotic materials online ( https://observablehq.com/@stared/tree-of-reddit-sex-life for a small subset). I got an insight from "The Surprising Psychology Of OnlyFans Simps by Charisma on Command" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auG2E53dFas ) that subscribers buy attention rather than sex .

I think OnlyFans is "different" because unlike other pornsites or camsites, users kind of create a "closer" relationship to the porn performer since they have access to "exclusive" content. As you said it's called "simping" and IMHO it can go south pretty quickly given how crazy people can be. Some deluded fans genuinly think they are in a real and genuine relationship with the porn performer. It's dangerous.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#189
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people are free to do what they'd like Your post seems to suggest you would not be happy for your kids to do what they like when they get older. Often people seem to be happy for other peoples children to do what they like but not theirs. To me this seems like the wrong attitude towards ones neighbours. There's 2 options therefore, for me, if I am honest with my family: disapprove of porn as a life choice or approve…

> Often people seem to be happy for other peoples children to do what they like but not theirs. To me this seems like the wrong attitude towards ones neighbours. I think you miss the important concept, that people can have different world views and different things might be acceptable to them. So I may not approve my kids/family/myself doing something, living some kind of lifestyle, but I accept that there are people…

> I accept that there are people who have different values and it's OK for me

Your children do not grow up in a vacuum. You as parents have limited influence, the society they grow up in is having at least an equal impact. You cannot successfully transmit values such as "porn is bad" if everyone around you, the media and the teacher in school is telling your kids the opposite. Humans to not get raised and live in isolation or a vacuum, society matters. A lot.

> Otherwise, we have religious fundamentalism.

If you extrapolate your point of view, hopefully finding that is destined to fail, you will have made the first step in realising why religions exist.

Re: Under the skin of OnlyFans

#190
Who knew a site which thrives on abolishing all personal boundaries in digital prostitution would have problems.

You can't expect customers to be courteous and professional with you if the product is sex, all the more so if you're leveraging the illusion of a social relationship. It's a one or the other proposition. There's no in-between, there's no picking both.

The entire thing is schizophrenic.

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