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Building a vision of life without work (2015)

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Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#181

Post by tomrod »

ModernMech wrote: post #31

work - noun - activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result. This article conflates "working for a living" and "work". In our society, we don't seem to consider work outside of employment by a corporation to be actual work. But activities like child care, elder care, household maintenance, community volunteering, pursuing an education, creation of art are all examples of un…

There is a term for this kind of work: cottage industry.

My understanding is that it isn't captured by most standard economic measures, like GDP.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#182

Post by UnpossibleJim »

hesdeadjim wrote: post #118
lupire wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the Amish are particularly rich or childless?

This is where assumptions can get you in trouble. The Amish are extremely business savvy, shrewd negotiators, and have no issues being active members in the economy. They also own vast tracts of very valuable land (especially in Lancaster, PA). Combine that with being frugal and austere, and it's a recipe for wealth. For childcare, their community focus let's them share the burden amongst the larger group. Additional…

I will say this, if there is one thing I can do for my child (other than learning proper money management), when the time is right I will help them with the down payment on a home. Holy crap it's so much more important than renting. It seems like a hassle, I know, but building generational equity gives you such a leg up in the world.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#183

Post by zoba »

low_common wrote: post #139
zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

How do you "live amongst the Amish"? Sounds like you're contributing to their community in some ways ie. dam building. Did you buy any land from them or a home? Just renting? I always assumed that they're an insular community. Want to get down there sometime and try the food. PA Dutch food looks so good.

I live around them, interact with them at their stores, etc. It's a rural area so people talk a lot more whenever you encounter them. The food is tasty, though it goes against what I consider healthy so I try not to eat too much of it.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#184

Post by danbruc »

This seems unethical to me, you essentially make other people work for you. All the returns from your investments are created by someone who probably does not have the luxury of retiring early, someone who now not only has to work for their life but also for yours.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#185

Post by dangus »

zoba wrote: post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

A comment like this is privilege in a nutshell.

Money to a certain point essentially buys the ability to be free and happy, and that’s why most people are “in the grind” so-to-speak. Being able to even think about making the mindset shift you describe is impossible for most people in the country let alone the world.

The lifestyle you describe is out of reach for the median American making $40-60k a year with a modest amount of credit card debt and kids to feed.

I have to wonder how you pay for your shelter, food, and health insurance? Is that from your unicorn startup money, or is that from your income from building dams?

For most Americans, quitting their corporate job means spending something like 2-4x more for healthcare. It means exhausting a very short financial runway.

Most Americans are one or two serious medical emergencies away from full blown bankruptcy.

That’s the irony here: folks advocating for exotic life experiences like this don’t seem to realize that the bulk of the world isn’t living life in a materialistic and career-focused way by choice. We’ve all just got bills to pay and want to be able to afford to go to the doctor or get our kids education or buy gas to get to Grandma’s house.

If you throw me a modest $5 million lump sum I’ll join you on your shift in mindset. But until then, sorry, I’ve got to get back to work.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#186

Post by adwn »

kerkeslager wrote: post #122
adwn wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His partner left him for another man and he was diagnosed with a serious medical issue. Both of those events are very common – especially medical issues. Once you're getting old, developing a "serious medical issue" is more common than not! Any plan which assumes that you'll neither break up with your partner nor develop medical issues for the rest of your life is a plan destined to fail.

...in which you cherry-pick one sentence from my post, ignoring the sentence before it. That's exactly why I said, "at least not any more unrealistic than any more traditional life plans". Working a job doesn't fix either of these problems. At least in the US, many people who go bankrupt due to medical issues have health insurance , usually provided by their job. These problems are compounded if your plan was to work…

> That's exactly why I said, "at least not any more unrealistic than any more traditional life plans".

And you're still wrong. Retiring early renders your financial situation much more fragile and susceptible to disruptive events. Sure, you can go bankrupt due to divorce or illness even when employed, but it's much more probable when you don't have an income stream and when your financial planning depends on not breaking up or not getting ill.

> gloating about how the author's plan failed, without looking at how plans that fit your worldview don't account for the same life events any better.

You're making a lot of unwarranted assumptions about my "worldview" and about how I'm "gloating" over the author's misfortune. Don't.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#187

Post by dheera »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #39

I'm 52 and have 2.5MM in an IRA (200k cash) and debt of just a $200k mortgage (and this is weaksauce compared to my peers who all became VPs or C*Os). And the idea of trying to live off an IRA that is currently stocks/bonds/ETFs scares the bejeebers out of me. I think it is more about the personality than the money: do you have the risk-tolerance like this guy to say "fuck it, it will all work out," or are you like m…

How do you get 2.5M in an IRA if they only let you put in 6K a year? Can you buy dogecoin in an IRA?

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#188

Post by SavantIdiot »

didip wrote: post #153
SavantIdiot wrote: post #39

I'm 52 and have 2.5MM in an IRA (200k cash) and debt of just a $200k mortgage (and this is weaksauce compared to my peers who all became VPs or C*Os). And the idea of trying to live off an IRA that is currently stocks/bonds/ETFs scares the bejeebers out of me. I think it is more about the personality than the money: do you have the risk-tolerance like this guy to say "fuck it, it will all work out," or are you like m…

Same here, this is why my goal is to simply FI not RE. Once I FI'ed, then I can take whatever job I want based on fun or personal aspiration.

Waiting ~6 more years to hit 59.5 so I can try to do exactly this and draw from my IRA w/o penalty. (I did some research into Roth conversion to avoid penalties but you can only withdraw a certain amount and only for certain items, not general expenses.)

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#189

Post by sweetheart »

nabbed wrote: post #171

After growing tired of modern software development practices a few years ago, I just quit my job. I had no plan on going back to work (although I did after 18 months), and I had no plan on what I was going to do other than improve my math skills (which I did to some small degree) and learn to touch type (which I did not do). What I really learned is that my digestion problems and benign heart rhythm issues got a lot…

> benign heart rhythm issues

Hey, I have these, and don't know anyone else who does. Could you tell me more? Email is in my profile, if you prefer.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#190

Post by caddemon »

munificent wrote: post #175
legohead wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know exactly what makes me happy -- playing video games, eating good food, living in a nice climate (CA or Hawaii), and traveling the world. Unfortunately my happiness comes with a price tag.

I think it's important to understand that "what makes you happy" is much more contextual than we realize. If you're sitting outside in the freezing cold, you might think that what makes you happy is "wearing big heavy coats and drinking cocoa". That's true right now because you're fucking cold. But get out of the cold and your happiness goals may change. Often, happiness is simply "what addresses the imbalances in my…

What you're saying is true, but people don't always do what actually makes them happy - see addiction. There are teams of people out there building social media sites, games, etc. that are designed to keep you on there as long as possible. Not for you to get entertainment out of it.

I think that's dangerous. Maybe in a world without work the incentives would change and these platforms might not exist in the same way. But as it stands now >50% of the people I know with too much time on their hands end up self-admittedly pissing most days away. A few of them have already decided to return to work even though they don't need to.

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