As for reduced effectiveness of the Pfizer vaccine, Beta and Gamma variants seem more concerning: https://aci.health.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/critical-intelligence...
Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant
181–190 of 259 posts
Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
To have autonomy over their own medical decisions.
You can have your medical decisions. You just aren't allowed to act irresponsibly and potentially infect people.
Really? It used to be pretty common for people to go to work sick. The flu is serious for many people.
There are numerous other instances of near willful infection of others.
Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait, so you had symptomatic COVID, then later got a vaccine? Or did you get COVID (with symptoms and a positive test) despite being vaccinated? In either case, how do you disentangle vaccine side effects from potential "long COVID"?
I had mildly symptomatic covid while my wife had acutely symptomatic covid. Then I had a year+ of long covid symptoms. Then I got a vaccine dose and was very sick for 4 days and had painful systemic inflammation for 6 weeks, during which time my covid toes and tongue and cough disappeared. My second dose only gave me stomach pain for a week.
Did you have symptoms for 9 weeks (your previous comment) or >1 year (this comment)?
Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant
#184I realize the article is specifically about the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and the delta variant, but even in more general articles about immunity, 'natural immunity' is left out of the conversation[1]. You can carry your COVID test paperwork and latest antibody test to show you are equally, if not better protected, however, it strangely is ignored. Or, a study by a vaccine producer (NOVAX), comes up with evidence that…
> the COVID vaccines only have 7 months, since the first vaccine was given Your comment is full of factual inaccuracies, and this one is easy to refute. The first COVID vaccines were given in trials in February 2020, shortly after the SARS-CoV-2 genome was sequenced, and they've already got 17 months of data. Also worth repeating what another commenter said, vaccine side effects always show up in the first two months…
Did you read my statement? "only have 7 months, since the first vaccine was given" was meant to address the first vaccine after approval to the public. The first vaccine was December 14, 2020 in the US.
>Your comment is full of factual inaccuracies, Which others do you dispute?
>Also worth repeating what another commenter said, vaccine side effects always show up in the first two months. This is a 'novel' vaccine and we do not have enough data on mRNA vaccines administered to the general public to make a blanket statement on its long-term safety. It's your decision to get the vaccine. My argument is I have had COVID, there's evidence natural immunity is equal if not better (it 'knows' the whole surface of the SARS2 virus, not just the 'spike' protein), I am relatively healthy, and although older, not in the top brackets of high mortality for the disease. My children are in the least-affected age brackets, and they have had COVID. Yet, social and regulatory pressures are gaining momentum while ignoring natural immunity.
I agree that they appear to be safe in the short term aside from the number of issues that have been reported, but I cannot say, and I don't see how the 'experts' and government can say unequivocally that they are safe in the long term, and then push them on still-developing preteens. Why?
>There doesn't seem to be much evidence in support of continued living in fear. I am not living in fear. I feel healthy and not worried about COVID at all for me. I am worried I will have to be vaccinated to keep my job, go to a concert, and shop without restrictions among other liberties.
Read my comments following this thread. All of my sources are official government or even the vaccine companies' website.
My argument is for not ignoring natural immunity for those who have had COVID already, and being a bit skeptical about data starting to emerge of side effects for a novel vaccine and technology with huge profits to big pharma and a 'get out of jail free' card in the form of the PREP act which gives them immunity from a majority of possible ill effects of the vaccine.
Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty common, pretty serious. - One million self-reporting long COVID in the UK, give or take - 89% of them reporting symptoms at least 12 weeks after infection - 40% of them reporting symptoms at least one year after infection - 18.5% reporting that their ability to undertake their day-to-day activities had been "limited a lot" https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...
I’ve probably had some long COVID symptoms myself, but self reporting on something like this is next to worthless. You’ve got a mix of the placebo effect with people that had COVID attributing everything negative after to it, all backed with the media constantly reminding them of long COVID.
I think "nocebo" is the better term in this case.
Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
> if every country simply locked down for 3-4 weeks This is an absurd fantasy that couldn’t have been possible in the real world. > But no, muh freedom, and but the economy! Your mocking tone is out of place. I do in fact think freedom and the economy are both important. Don’t you?
Yes, my freedom over the course of almost 1.5 years was adversely affected because we couldn't handle a month without it. And yes, the economy was adversely affected because most small businesses were shuttered for half a year and swaths of them went out of business since we could not bear closing everything down for a sixth of that time period. Edit: Please explain to me how swallowing real estate, employee, and sup…
[deleted]
Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant
#187Buried the lede: > At the same time, protection against hospitalization and serious illness remained strong. I.e., Delta is more likely to get you sick, but you’ll still turn out fine.
Isn't this exactly what we would expect? It's more or less similar to what probably happened with the flu in 1920. New flu variants were still popping up, but they weren't like the 1918-1919 type, and the mortality rate was much lower. Plus, I recall being told before the vaccines showed up that they would be better at reducing mortality than at eliminating getting sick at all. Now, if you thought you were going to j…
Yes, escape from circulating neutralizing antibodies (so the virus is able to infect you and replicate) is one thing.
Escape from CD4+ T-cells is another thing (the dreaded "reset to 2019" fear).
And the 1918 H1N1 influenza circulated as the only form of seasonal influenza until 1957 (when it was displaced by H2N2 which later became H2N3). From 1957 to 2009 H1N1 mutated in swine. After 50 years of mutating in probably billions of pigs the H1 envelope protein jumped back to humans in 2009. Since old people had pretty universally been exposed to pre-1957 H1N1 they had cross reactive partial immunity from T-cells that still recognized the H1 envelope protein and that pandemic fizzled.
If you can't escape CD4+ T-cells after 50 years of mutating in pigs, I don't think that this coronavirus is going to be able to escape them in a year or two.
Also at some point to achieve escape from neutralizing antibodies this virus is likely going to have to start making "choices" which make it less virulent.
A decline in vaccine efficacy against delta could also indicate that the enhanced transmissibility of delta comes through partial vaccine/immune escape and not through ratcheting up R0/Rt (which would be more consistent with reports that it isn't more lethal / doesn't have higher viral loads, since those switches are all likely to move together).
Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
NZ's strategy only makes sense with eventual vaccines. There is no chance that this disease would ever not become endemic. The world is too large, and too many countries don't have the advantages NZ does (comparitavely wealthy, isolated, low population density). They deserve props for keeping their population healthy until this point, but the idea that it can continue indefinitely, or that it was ever feasible for a…
NZ's strategy (and all lockdown strategies) never made any sense and it was obvious from the get-go. Very early into the pandemic, we learned three crucial facts: 1) Covid is non-transmissible outside. 2) Vitamin D is a potent inhibitor of respiratory illness in general and covid in particular. 3) Obesity is the greatest risk-factor associated with covid. With these taken into account (and all are very well-supported…
1) might not be true with Delta. There are cases of "passing" transmission of 2) is still up in the air with studies going both ways (but get your vitamin D still, it has multiple benefits outside of this)
3) is somewhat true, but there are other big comorbidities as well (Diabetes, Downs Syndrome, etc), it's just that it's one that's highly visible in Western society and hypertension is very common in obese people.
Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
I cut myself from consuming news and FB/Twitter feeds many years ago, maybe back in 2014 when MSM went ape shit in my region. Can't say I was successful, for number of reasons. News still find their way into my head via HN headlines (although I disabled them via Tampermonkey scripts), via buzz in comments, via talks with (some) friends etc. Also, only bad news go through via these channels, so the world looks even mo…
For me its just recognizing how the news is formed and syndicated. For example, everything on the news is supposed to match your worst nightmare. The more closely it matches, the less likely it is accurate. Knowing that helps filter what you actually need to be cognizant of and react to. Actually consuming it is just to apply critical thinking to know why it isn't the complete story, and solely for conversation purpo…
> everything on the news is supposed to match your worst nightmare. The more closely it matches, the less likely it is accurate
To my experience, it's the opposite.
Re: Israel data reportedly shows efficacy drop of Pfizer-BioNTech for delta variant
#190Probably we shall take into account, that journalist like to spread bad news! Looking back at the previous variants, the vaccines keep working. This is good news! What will bring is into trouble are non vaccinated people which build a big resource pool for Covid-19 to become more aggressive. Lockdowns, removal of rights or masks cannot eliminate Covid-19 (so called short term workarounds) but the vaccines can make it…
> What will bring is into trouble are non vaccinated people which build a big resource pool for Covid-19 to become more aggressive. I've heard a different story from an interview with Robert Malone, the creator of mRNA vaccines [1] [1] https://www.bitchute.com/video/ukx8L3lh5CA7/
Thank you so much for that link. That was an incredibly interesting interview :)