Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash • Hacker News Board

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#181

Post by SECProto » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 10:40 PM UTC

williadc wrote: post #127

eric__cartman wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering how unexciting new CPUs are nowadays I'd wager that a 10 year old computer in 2025 will still be perfectly usable for basic tasks such as email and web browsing. Something like an 8 year old i7 2700k is still very usable for a lot of home users. It might not be a beast when it comes to crunching numbers, but a big portion of the population would be happy using such a chip if you pair it with at least 8GB…

To strengthen rather than diminish your argument, the I7 2700K is over 9.5 years old. Source: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/61275/i...

Was coming to respond the same thing. I used a processor from the same generation (2500k) from May 2011 to May 2021, including for gaming. Upgraded to an SSD at some point and the video card, but the processor was still fine. I would've kept it another couple years but I was having some issues (I think a ram stick had gone bad) and the easiest solution was $500 canadian for a new processor (10400F), motherboard, and ram

I'd take the argument farther - I suspect the hypothetical 2015 computer referenced would be fine for most users (with non-processor upgrades) until 2030.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#182

Post by mastrsushi » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 10:41 PM UTC

I've been using a late 2011 MacBook Pro with Ubuntu Mate. From my experience, not only are operating systems becoming over demanding in hardware specifications, but so are dynamic web pages and the internet as a whole.

It's almost impossible to browse the internet with a 10 year old pc. Something that was a lot more forgiving with older hardware 8 to 10 years ago.

Future generations are growing with TikTok, Instagram, and all these apps that demand complex rendering tasks and large streams of video data. This is raising the bar on hardware requirements.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#183

Post by ColonelPhantom » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

Goz3rr wrote: post #86

sedatk wrote: post #9

I think the article makes a good point about the arbitrary red line drawn between two CPU generations with no justification whatsoever, but "heaps of trash" isn't the strongest argument against this. Arguably, Intel releasing new CPUs causes that even more heaps of trash, probably orders of magnitude more than Windows. It's a silly argument IMHO.

>the arbitrary red line drawn between two CPU generations I've seen people theorize that it's because of the availability of UMIP instructions

According to WikiChip, UMIP got added in Zen2 (Ryzen 3000), while MS supports Zen+ (Ryzen 2000).

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#184

Post by k12sosse » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 10:44 PM UTC

dunnevens wrote: post #132

chasil wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure that they are blocked entirely? A "hard floor" published earlier this week implied that only TPM 1.0 with a dualcore and 4gb of ram is required, although news emerged that the hard floor was revised up. Microsoft is not handling the hard floor question well at all. https://www.pcworld.com/article/3623013/why-windows-11-requi...

I guess that's part of the problem. No one outside of Microsoft is sure. The uncertainty has completely overshadowed the launch. One minute, they're talking about "soft floors", and the next they're saying it will refuse to install. Makes me wonder if a power struggle is going on. You'd think they would have a coherent message put together before launch. Recommended system requirements + minimum system requirements,…

The ol' fishing for outrage. Let's just toss this out there and see what bites. "We'll adjust our strategy based on what we hear."

Kinda wonder, how much of this is "we asked and never got a legit response" vs. "haHAA, gotcha bitch! NOW THATS MEANINGFUL FEEDBACK!"

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#185

Post by userbinator » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 10:45 PM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #55

cortesoft wrote: post #10

I get the frustration with the requirements, but it is a little dramatic to say those machines who don’t meet the requirements will go straight in the trash. Those machines can still run Windows 10, and a lot of people will just keep using it. Why would people who don’t feel the need to upgrade to the newest hardware as soon as it is out feel the need to upgrade to the newest OS as soon as it comes out?

Because Windows 10 support eventually ends, and because of the proprietary nature of the software, independent individuals can't patch their own computer like an official Windows Update can. So those individuals who keep using a W10 machine beyond the end of extended support will be vulnerable to any number of threats if their machine is not air gapped.

and because of the proprietary nature of the software, independent individuals can't patch their own computer like an official Windows Update can.

At least for older versions, there have been plenty of unofficial patches for various things, and many of those are open-source too.

Patching binaries has been a long tradition in the DOS/Windows world, going back decades.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#186

Post by bruce343434 » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 10:45 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #180

quantumsequoia wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Firefox users are much more likely to be contrarian with their software decisions. I'm not sure how much I'd be willing to extrapolate from from data on Firefox users to the general population

You think Firefox users are going to be more likely to use an EOL-ed OS?

Perhaps, because win7 is known for being "the last good windows" with some privacy. It may or may not be true, but a lot of people are adamant about not using linux while also trying to maintain privacy, hence they use win7. I imagine such users would probably use a browser like firefox.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#187

Post by ChrisSD » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 10:46 PM UTC

JorgeGT wrote: post #164

eric__cartman wrote: post #27

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working.…

Fun fact: Microsoft will happily sell you today a $3500 Surface Studio 2 with a W11-unsupported i7-7820: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/surface-studio-2/8sbjxm0m5...

Fun fact: the Surface Studio 2 is fully supported until October 2, 2024 with no need to replace the OS!

Not bad for a niche device released in 2018.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#188

Post by EvanAnderson » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #103

GekkePrutser wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But who wants to be stuck on an older OS? It's still a big reason to upgrade before it would have been technically necessary.

Everyone who isn't the sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" that MS is trying to convert more of its users to... fortunately, the majority of slightly-computer-literate people I know are not. They use their computers to create documents, email, browse Internet, and complain about the constant churn of the tech industry. They are constantly irritated by UI changes and other updates that had zero or negative impacts on t…

Presumably Microsoft will aggressively push developers to use Windows 11-only APIs to encourage adoption. I hate it, but it seems likely.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#189

Post by Daishiman » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #135

userbinator wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone who isn't the sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" that MS is trying to convert more of its users to... fortunately, the majority of slightly-computer-literate people I know are not. They use their computers to create documents, email, browse Internet, and complain about the constant churn of the tech industry. They are constantly irritated by UI changes and other updates that had zero or negative impacts on t…

Ok true, but this is hacker news of course. I would expect most people here to be exactly that sort of "rabid trendchaser techie" :) And of course, the question is how hard is MS going to push Windows 11. They pushed the upgrade from W7 to W10 pretty hard towards end users.

Even the most die-had MS user is not excited about Windows and hasn't been for the last decade.

Operating systems are finished products at this point.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#190

Post by young_unixer » Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

To think that all of this Microsoft bullshit could be the propeller for Linux adoption, if only Linux developers had good taste and had developed something worthy of replacing Windows for the average user.