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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#181

Post by agogdog »

version_five wrote: post #43
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #7

Fine, but if any company makes me wear a mask for 8 hours, I am out of there. Work remotely or come to a normal office sure.

It's a religion now, and an important part of testing your adherence is going to be seeing whether you're willing to wear a mask all day at work, tell others how important it is, and cluck and shake your head at the unenlightened (anti-maskers) that disagree with you. I understand this will be perceived as a troll post, but this as absolutely the setup I am seeing.

To be honest I'd rather live in the world where people have an overabundance of care for each other rather than the world where people disregard the well-being of others entirely.

Of course it's not binary, and it shouldn't be binary... but comments like this are hellbent on making it that way. I understand why you feel this way, but the hyperbole doesn't help anyone.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#182

Post by eyelidlessness »

scrose wrote: post #160
gnulinux wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this has to do with seniority. When I was a lot more experienced than my coworker, doing pair programming was insanely fun. Because it felt like solving a puzzle with a friend, or exploring a video game with my sister. Now I'm occasionally pair programming with my manager -- who's like a 1000x me -- pair programming is mentally blocking. It's because my peer thinks so much faster than I do that it feels like…

I’ve been in both positions and know the feeling! Whenever I pair with someone now, I usually try and slow things down in the beginning and ask questions along the way to see if they follow me, even if I think what I’m doing is ‘simple’. No point in pairing if the other persons eyes are glazing over :)

This is great, and also good to encourage with people who are more junior. They might think they’ve explained the thing from their understanding but it’s trivial to omit details in that position too.

I’m by no means junior but I’m new on a team, and I’ve had to remember over and over that the giant blob of the state of everything is unfamiliar to me, familiar to my team, and when I elide details I’m not saving anyone any time because I’m not sure whether those details are relevant or even if they might reveal where I’m off track.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#183

Post by emc3 »

Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I would expect more of that competitive advantage, too! Most people don't want to give up Working from home[1] and/or are only interested in "working" to collect a paycheck[2]. If the future because of in-office work mostly consists of ambitious people like yourself, opposed to the latter, then I'm actually more interested in joining. Thanks for the perspective.

[1] https://www.linkedin.com/posts/wfhjobs_wfh-workfromhome-remo...

[2] Also: "no skin in the game" / the misguided local optimization where personal responsibility is minimized at the expense of the group / intentionally stagnating instead of growing in one's career position.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#184

Post by applethroewai »

luffapi wrote: post #41

There’s something hyper draconian about a billionaire CEO demanding everyone return to the office so he can see their faces. Apple execs have enriched themselves by capturing way more profit than regular employees (Apple engineering pay is average/low average). This is overstepping. Not only will any company that insists on a return to the office lose employees, they’re also loudly signaling their disdain and it’s go…

Average out of FAANG, not industry average.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#185

Post by newsclues »

akomtu wrote: post #122
andrei_says_ wrote: post #28

Why? Because of the already sunk cost into office space? Any other reasons? I know I can drive 40 min and stare at the same laptop and email/zoom with the same people. What’s in it for me? All I see is unnecessary agony, and a lot of it. I produce more from home. Why does an employer want me to suffer more, even if it will cost them? What’s in it for them?

A wild guess: execs supplement their income by having stakes in food/rent businesses around the HQ offices. If employees don't come, those businesses will lose customers and the execs will suffer. I mean, if you were such an exec and knew the corp is about to build a large office somewhere, wouldn't you buy 40-60% stakes in key businesses there while they are cheap? And wouldn't you cry wolf if the new office never o…

Classic vending machine contracts!

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#186

Post by slavapestov »

emc3 wrote: post #183
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I would expect more of that competitive advantage, too! Most people don't want to give up Working from home[1] and/or are only interested in "working" to collect a paycheck[2]. If the future because of in-office work mostly consists of ambitious people like yourself, opposed to the latter, then I'm actually more interested in joining. Thanks for the perspective. [1] https://www.linkedin.com/posts/wfhjobs_wfh-workfrom…

What are you doing your job for if not to collect a paycheck?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#187

Post by amyjess »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #130
dm8 wrote: post #65

I maybe in the minority in this comments section but I genuinely enjoy working from office. I enjoy the social aspects. And commute never bothered me, albeit max commute for me was 45 mins (in the bay area). The only downside that I always felt was parking situation. Lot of my friends feel the same about office work. I believe going forward there will be companies (and employees) in 2 camps -- remote first and hybrid…

> I maybe in the minority in this comments section but I genuinely enjoy working from office. In my experience, plenty of people enjoy working from the office. Many of us enjoy a mix of in-office and WFH. The comments sections on these articles tend to receive a lot of projection from people who simply hate their jobs and view WFH as a partial antidote to that. That, and a lot of comments from people who have absurdl…

Mixed WFH/office should be 100% voluntary or it isn't truly mixed.

If I can't decide, with zero notice to my employer, to spend a month living and working on the other side of the country, it's not mixed. Anything that requires I live in driving distance of my company's office is not mixed.

Mixed means the office is there if anyone wants to come in and work from the office, but if someone wants to spend every month living in a different state (or even a different country, but I understand there are tax issues with that) they can do that too.

Alternately, I would accept something like the way oil rigs work, where instead of "you work X days a week at the office", it's "you work X months of the year at the office". I might be able to tolerate working from the office 3 months out of every year in the office if I can spend the other 9 months as a digital nomad.

(one thing this pandemic made me want to do is to not take travel for granted... I want to see, if not the world, at least the rest of this country before I die, and I'll be damned if my employer gets in the way of that)

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#188

Post by swiley »

dm8 wrote: post #65

I maybe in the minority in this comments section but I genuinely enjoy working from office. I enjoy the social aspects. And commute never bothered me, albeit max commute for me was 45 mins (in the bay area). The only downside that I always felt was parking situation. Lot of my friends feel the same about office work. I believe going forward there will be companies (and employees) in 2 camps -- remote first and hybrid…

45 minutes means an hour and a half of your life every day that you don't get paid for and have to just throw away. (not only that but spending it doing one of the more dangerous things you can do in the US: driving.)

That combined with the ridiculous housing costs in the bay area makes me wonder why anyone (especially more numerate people) would tolerate not working remotely.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#189

Post by heavyset_go »

I suspect that many employers that are requiring their employees to return to the office for a few days a week are doing it to ease their transitions into a full return to the office.

From what I've seen from friends and family, some employees were told that after the pandemic, they were only going to return to the office when it was necessary for them to be there, then it was one day mandatory at the office, and now it's 3 or 4 days.

The outcome that I think most people will find themselves living with is employers going back to business as usual, and maybe some higher level employees will get to work from home a bit more often than they were able to before.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#190

Post by kimbernator »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #130
dm8 wrote: post #65

I maybe in the minority in this comments section but I genuinely enjoy working from office. I enjoy the social aspects. And commute never bothered me, albeit max commute for me was 45 mins (in the bay area). The only downside that I always felt was parking situation. Lot of my friends feel the same about office work. I believe going forward there will be companies (and employees) in 2 camps -- remote first and hybrid…

> I maybe in the minority in this comments section but I genuinely enjoy working from office. In my experience, plenty of people enjoy working from the office. Many of us enjoy a mix of in-office and WFH. The comments sections on these articles tend to receive a lot of projection from people who simply hate their jobs and view WFH as a partial antidote to that. That, and a lot of comments from people who have absurdl…

> The comments sections on these articles tend to receive a lot of projection from people who simply hate their jobs and view WFH as a partial antidote to that.

I would actually argue that this is backwards; I really like what I do for work, but I've found that the worst part of my job is dealing with office politics, constantly being interrupted, and (like you said) the commute/time commitment associated with being in the office.

At this point, it's an affront to be told that I can no longer do laundry during the day, finish chores in 10 minute periods between work, or spend the day with my family and/or in my private office in pajamas. Especially when it's just because a C-level somewhere in the branches of my company is feeling lonely and/or bored.

To say my love for remote work is a reflection of my job satisfaction is outright unfair; Life is simply better when I'm not subjected daily to the dreadful routine of going into the office.

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