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Why Russians do not smile (2002)

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Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#181

Post by Clewza313 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #123
gsk22 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're misunderstanding what the phrase "how are you" means in the US. It is not a literal question, but a set phrase with implicit social rules for "correct" responses. This doesn't mean the person asking is faking kindness - but also understand they're not actually asking for a rundown of how your life is going. Negative responses to the question are ok, just not deeply personal answers. Tom Scott has an excellent…

It's the same in Russian actually. You're saying "how are you" ("как дела") after "hello" ("привет"), but you're not really expecting any meaningful answer other than "I'm OK" ("нормально") or "I'm fine" ("отлично"). But it might be one way to start a conversation when you want to tell something you don't like. Like "How are you? I'll live. What happened? ...". But it's more of closed friends conversation when you ca…

From now on, I need to start responding to "How are you?" with "Normal".

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#182

Post by dang »

Some past related threads:

What a Russian Smile Means - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17445108 - July 2018 (67 comments)

What a Russian Smile Means - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17381975 - June 2018 (1 comment)

What a Russian Smile Means - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17376212 - June 2018 (1 comment)

Do Russians smile at each other? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7491944 - March 2014 (1 comment)

Why do Russians smile so little (and Americans so much?) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2375633 - March 2011 (105 comments)

Pretty sure there have been others. Anybody?

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#183

Post by geocrasher »

cosmodisk wrote: post #116

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

When my wife was dying (she has since passed away) and nobody could figure out her illness, she'd be in the most wretched pain, in the ER again, and she'd be retching awfully and almost uncontrollably.

A doctor would walk in, having heard of all this already and ask "How are you?"

Sometimes she gave them the benefit of the doubt, and sometimes she was a bit less charitable.

My point? Americans (as she was), Russians, Ukrainians, Latvians, Japanese, Kurdish, Bolivians, Icelandians, Koreans, Germans, Chinese, Scottish, Irish, Australians, Austrians, Swiss, South Africans, Egyptians, Mixolydians, Bohemians, and even Canadians all agree one one thing:

Being asked "How are you?" is the LAST thing somebody wants to hear when they are suffering.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#184

Post by mgerullis »

type0 wrote: post #142
mgerullis wrote: post #132

It’s funny, I never noticed this. I grew up in Germany and had lived in the US for a year a while back. A few years after I met an American friend here who had been on a euro trip. She went to Prague (not exactly Russia, but culturally close enough I guess) and she said something like: "why are all people there so damn depressed?" I myself had great times in that same city, I never got that feeling. But I realized th…

> She went to Prague Czech people are often brisk in attitude, Berliners on the other hand - that's something else entirely, I wouldn't describe people as unfriendly but everyone acts coldly and mechanically. Could it be that the fractured state of the city made everyone to be like that?

I live in Berlin, raised German. The city is a wild mix and what you are describing I would argue is only applicable to a subset of people. Yes, many people here might seem cold and mechanical. That’s what I and this article have been trying to describe, people with an eastern heritage appear to outsiders this way. To me they do not appear this way, I’ve grown accustomed to this attitude.

We perceive Americans often as overly talkative and artificially happy. They’re not, it’s just the way they express themselves.

They might not smile as much in public but they do know how to love, be generous and laugh their asses off, just as westerners do. You’d see that once you get to really know these people.

But on the other hand I have barely ever seen a place that is also inhabited with very hedonistic people who laugh and feel openly. It’s quite a weird place to be honest.

Besides my German roots I’m also half Egyptian. Often when western people observe Arabs, they’re gonna think that they are constantly angry. I thought so myself when I was little. But it isn’t true. They have different means of communication and are some of the most welcoming, caring people I’ve ever met.

All comes down to acceptance. Once you accept the cultural differences you got with that other person and adapt to them, you will not feel them as cold or mechanical.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#185

Post by profunctor »

tazjin wrote: post #179
daxfohl wrote: post #178

Another thing I've noticed uniquely with some Russian colleagues, and I've never quite known the meaning of, but I assume is Russian cultural attribute, is silence. A few times I've e.g. been explaining something to a Russian colleague, I'll go on and on, and when I'm done ... nothing. This always gets me anxious. What does it mean? Does the person think it's the dumbest thing he's ever heard? Did the person not unde…

What are you expecting them to do?

An ACK of some sort is expected when explaining something

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#186

Post by ph0rque »

Clewza313 wrote: post #181
vbezhenar wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in Russian actually. You're saying "how are you" ("как дела") after "hello" ("привет"), but you're not really expecting any meaningful answer other than "I'm OK" ("нормально") or "I'm fine" ("отлично"). But it might be one way to start a conversation when you want to tell something you don't like. Like "How are you? I'll live. What happened? ...". But it's more of closed friends conversation when you ca…

From now on, I need to start responding to "How are you?" with "Normal".

My go to answer is, "can't complain". Vague enough to leave it alone if the question is trivial, but also open-ended enough to expound upon if the other person is genuinely interested in my well-being.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#188

Post by antisthenes »

kenjackson wrote: post #166

I'm curious, how do Russians determine someone is in a bad mood from body/face language? In the US I can tell when my colleagues aren't happy the moment they walk in the room by their face. In Russia, do they have to speak in order for you to determine this or is there some other cue? Maybe if they smile?

> I'm curious, how do Russians determine someone is in a bad mood from body/face language?

If they're not my family or closest friends, what do I care what mood they're in?

And if they are, I'll ask.

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#189

Post by mycologos »

3pt14159 wrote: post #146
cosmodisk wrote: post #116

Plenty of contribution already,so I'll just add a personal anecdote. Some years ago I happened to have some beers with a Latvian Russian,who lived here, in London. He tells us that he doesn't get the Brits. He just doesn't understand the reasoning in some situations. I ask to elaborate. He says: last year, I had a pretty serious trauma and ended up in a hospital. It's so bad, pain, lots of tests,etc. And I'm pretty f…

Russians are so extreme. Even though my favourite professors at Waterloo in Canada were Russian, it wasn't until I learned some basic Russian that I finally got over the typical view of them drilled into people by Hollywood. Your run of the mill Russian is honest about their feelings. Not honest about the facts, no, they can cheat on an insurance filing just fine. But that coldness that so many of them seem to have i…

A few years ago Masha Gessen did an episode of Conversations With Tyler, a podcast hosted by Tyler Cowen, and at one point she said this about Russian friendships [1]:

> ... I think that — and this may answer your question — Russian friendships are much more emotional and intense than American friendships [...] When I moved back to [the USA] five and a half years ago, it was like this sense of whiplash because I had a lot of friends here, but I had been absent for 20 years. I would get together with my friends, and then two hours later, our get-together would be over. I’m like, “Well, what was the point of that? Was that just to let each other know that we still exist?” Because you don’t really get into deep conversation until about four hours in and a number of bottles of alcohol [...] I think that maybe that’s what you’re referring to. Maybe you’re just referring to the emotional intensity of Russian friendship, where it’s hard. It’s like lovers, even in this country, don’t really drift apart usually. You have to break up. You can’t just stop calling, and go from talking every day to talking every few weeks, and then forget about each other’s existence.

I usually take claims about what people from a country are like with a big grain of salt, but it's interesting to see this in your comment, too. Maybe I should pursue some Russian friendships.

[1] https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/masha-gessen/

Re: Why Russians do not smile (2002)

#190

Post by shoto_io »

A while back I flew to Moscow as a consultant to do a 1 day workshop. All went fine. The only thing that irritated the hell out of me was that no one laughed at any of my jokes. Not even smiled. I thought it was the translator.
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