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U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#181

Post by saurik »

rsj_hn wrote: post #164
0xB31B1B wrote: post #48

Pretty hype about this TBH. There is a long history of companies domiciling in say, Monaco, The Cayman Island, Panama etc to avoid taxes and regulations where they mainly operate. My understanding is that the current process in vogue for the mega cap companies is the "double irish dutch sandwich" https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double-irish-with-a-dut... No one, including tax lawyers, will tell you with a straig…

It’s strange that you recognize new stable equilibriums emerging as unanticipated consequences of global capital liberalization but you advocate for trying to maintain a new unstable equilibrium instead of thinking about viable strategies that may work. As a piece of advice, if your solution requires 100% compliance by random nations in order for you to tax your own citizens/corporations, then your solution is square…

Restricting the money flow in and out of a country is something we like to ding China for, and is a big reason why cryptocurrencies have become very popular there; maybe the unstable equilibrium is merely the mechanism we use to tax corporations.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#182

Post by BitwiseFool »

thegreatpeter wrote: post #85
zionic wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a US taxpayer who sees the fraud, abuse, and general mismanagement of my tax money why would I willingly support the same government getting more? It is incredibly depressing how little I get from the government vs how much they take from me. The entire system is a sham and I honestly don't want to support it anymore. I'm working as hard as I can to try and escape it at the earliest possible moment.

It sounds like you should do some research and see what the govt actually provides for you!

The government does a whole lot of things, but nothing particularly well. Furthermore, the government rarely provides anything itself because what it actually does is hire contractors to do things on its behalf.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#183

Post by ajkdhcb2 »

permo-w wrote: post #172
ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #157

You will never close all the loopholes. It is impossible and the real people in power don't want it. High taxes, like in most of current society, will always mostly keep the poor poor and eliminate the middle class; politicians just dress it up as redistributing money from the rich.

based on what?

The rich are extremely mobile, already have wealth and assets that will keep appreciating.

The poor and middle class would need to disproportionately gain wealth if they were to rise to the same position in the power hierarchy, and they are not mobile. High taxes are like fixing positions in place, like a moat to make it difficult for others to rise, since it isn't going to retroactively take money.

Historical data further shows that taxes keep rising but so does inequality.

It's blatantly obvious that you cant control the laws of every country when the game theory makes it obvious that lower taxes makes you more competitive at attracting wealthy people.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#184

Post by permo-w »

rayiner wrote: post #143
stephen_cagle wrote: post #129

I thought I remembered at some point (might have been more than a decade ago) that I heard that most economist thought that corporate income taxes were basically a bad idea? Is this no longer held as a valid belief? Long term, I would almost prefer if we just moved to taxing people's assets. Maybe we can force corporations to basically pay out most of their profits to shareholders to avoid having them get too large?

Most economists think corporate taxes are a bad idea: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/07/19/157047211/six-... > Tuesday's show presented the common-sense, no-nonsense Planet Money economic plan — backed by economists of all stripes, but probably toxic to any candidate that might endorse it. > Three: Eliminate the corporate income tax. Completely. If companies reinvest the money into their businesses, that's g…

Most economists think infinite growth in a finite world is a good idea. Companies reinvesting in themselves and growing bigger is not inherently a good thing.

Large corporations, in my opinion, are already causing the breakdown of local societies. Deals are done over large areas, less and less people are in control of their own fates. More and more externalities are caused as business leaders are more detached from the realities of their actions. Wages for workers are lower as more needs to be paid to management, and profits get used for stock-buybacks rather than bonuses and higher wages, to please shareholders rather than workers

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#185

Post by permo-w »

missedthecue wrote: post #158

This feels like American politicians trying to force countries like Ireland must pay for US fiscal mismanagement

or is it the American politicians trying to stop countries like Ireland hindering other countries' public services for their own benefit?

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#186

Post by zionic »

dmautz wrote: post #170
zionic wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not having that service, is worse. Is it really? We could eliminate entire sectors of the federal government and your average person would have no clue. Why do we need 18 intelligence agencies? Why do we need 13 carrier battle groups? What, exactly, do our 100+ overseas bases do for the average tax payer? None of it makes sense in a supposedly representative government where those who slave away and pay for it get…

This is why I used the word sometimes. Obviously the whole military industrial complex is the worst example. As for the philosophical argument that they take my money by force, I just don't get it. This is the best way we have found to have a civilized society so far. Going far in either direction communism or anarchy is not a good solution. You have to also consider reality when arguing policy.

>As for the philosophical argument that they take my money by force, I just don't get it.

"No taxation without representation" was one of the core driving motivations behind the American revolution. The problem is that I, and I suspect a growing number of others, have completely and totally lost faith in my government to represent my interests while taxing me. The "men with guns" line is just to reinforce that I have no choice in the matter, they are free to do whatever they want with zero accountability and I have to pay them or they send me to jail.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#187

Post by anm89 »

listless wrote: post #142
anm89 wrote: post #113

The fact that everyone views it as normal for the US to endorse global tax laws is pretty frightening

Why frightening?

Imagine you are a smaller country here. You probably don't want your tax law to be determined by third parties.

If anyone tried to enforce things like this on the US we'd be having a press conference with some general explaining that attacks on our sovereignty will have consequences.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#188

Post by permo-w »

the_optimist wrote: post #96

It’s not about a level, it’s about the rule. To everyone who says “15% is fair,” consider what you’ll feel like at 70% marginal. Literal global rule. Some would call that overreach.

If you're at 70% marginal, it means you're already earning an ungodly amount of money

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#189

Post by zionic »

sagarm wrote: post #110
x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you described is done with less than 15% of total spending budget that the U.S. currently allocates. The vast majority goes to paying for military spending and benefits to people who pay very little tax.

> benefits to people who pay very little tax. By which you mean Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid? Those programs have broad public support. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56324

>Those programs have broad public support.

Which is largely an education problem. Diamonds have overwhelming public support and are essentially a scam. We need to build sustainable, healthy systems that work for our population and don't make naive assumptions like infinite growth.

Re: U.S. Backs 15% Global Minimum Tax to Curb Profit Shifting Overseas

#190

Post by permo-w »

paul_f wrote: post #77

Just watch, the next step is to apply this concept to US Sates. Require a minimum 5% state income tax and if less, have the IRS take the difference.

I love the "have the IRS take the difference", as if the IRS is some corporation that's just gonna stick it in their bank account or pay it to their shareholders
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