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How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

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Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#181

Post by bourgwaletariat »

onion2k wrote: post #81
bourgwaletariat wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is the problem. Unprofessional, low-quality employees think employment is "king of the hill," when really it's "tides lift all boats." It only takes 1 person in a company of a hundred to completely destroy it. Allow one psychopath into your company and it'll go bankrupt or otherwise defunct within just a couple years. These folks are afraid. They know their performance is substandard. They exist by hiding t…

Unprofessional, low-quality employees think employment is "king of the hill," when really it's "tides lift all boats." Very few people believe teamwork is a rising tide because very few companies do. A perf improvement that takes something from hundreds of minutes down to 1.2s does make the person who did the original implementation look bad. Questions will be asked why it was so much worse before, especially if thos…

So then fire them. Not only did they mess up. They lied. They were too incompetent to know better, then they bullied the person who was.

Gone. Period. Zero tolerance policy on bullying and harassment.

It's never good. Ever.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#182

Post by Viliam1234 »

phicoh wrote: post #131
Bayart wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- when working for a Swedish company, when they extended my contract and said they are very happy to have me but they can't pay me the same rate as my Swedish colleagues (I am Polish). Were you living in Poland or Sweden ? I kinda get that they'd want to pay less if you were living in Poland, considering the cost of living, but in Sweden that'd be scummy as shit.

Why would the cost of living factor in? If I move to a place that has a very high cost of living, then I don't get paid more. Why would the reverse be true?

How difficult would it be to do the following?

- rent the cheapest place (smallest, worst, etc.) somewhere on the edge of an expensive area = this will be your official address;

- buy or rent a nice large place in a cheap area = you will actually live here;

- work from home.

Bonus points if you share the cheap place in the expensive area with your friends (no problem, since no one is actually going to live there).

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#183

Post by Cracklord »

rasputnik6502 wrote: post #85

I see some points but i'm getting tired of the bashing Basecamp gets. We can clearly see where it went wrong - i mean, at some size of the business it doesnt look good if employees make fun of customer names internally. But come on, i dont think any of the customers were hurt or affected at all, none of them even complained about any such thing happening. So this was some internal whistleblower who raised the alarm a…

Oh man. God forbid you talk about Jeff Bezos in our company chat in a positive light. Good way to get into big trouble. It’s assumed we all know he’s a demon who destroyed countless lives with his low wages and slave labor. We all hate him. If you don’t show you hate him too, you’ll get in big trouble. Reports will be filed. People will be offended.

Don’t dare say anything good about capitalism either, that’s a good way to trigger everyone and get isolated as an insane person.

I believe we’ve gotten to this point simply because of people like you describe essentially winning the war and having control over the company culture. They are a minority but they are very loud and hyper aggressive and controlling of everyone’s behavior. The worst part is, they claim that they’re oppressed, as they control the entire company’s thoughts and speech.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#184

Post by rasputnik6502 »

Cracklord wrote: post #183
rasputnik6502 wrote: post #85

I see some points but i'm getting tired of the bashing Basecamp gets. We can clearly see where it went wrong - i mean, at some size of the business it doesnt look good if employees make fun of customer names internally. But come on, i dont think any of the customers were hurt or affected at all, none of them even complained about any such thing happening. So this was some internal whistleblower who raised the alarm a…

Oh man. God forbid you talk about Jeff Bezos in our company chat in a positive light. Good way to get into big trouble. It’s assumed we all know he’s a demon who destroyed countless lives with his low wages and slave labor. We all hate him. If you don’t show you hate him too, you’ll get in big trouble. Reports will be filed. People will be offended. Don’t dare say anything good about capitalism either, that’s a good…

Yep I think it's about control. Punching everyone around while playing a helpless victim. You read someone accusing coworkers of racism and sexism, whole company of being evil and pathological and you see the 'victim' causing all the trouble themselves by behaving in arrogant, entitled and manipulate way. We had some examples from Google and other big companies, and very often it's a person with an unappreciated primadonna syndrome.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#185

Post by louwrentius »

heavyset_go wrote: post #171
louwrentius wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, if you hurl printers at people, there is something so wrong with you mentally, the only fair response is compassion and pity in my view.

There are plenty of assholes who do shitty things because they're just entitled. There's no need to pathologize shitty people.

That's such a convenient and easy answer.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#186

Post by lostlogin »

anoncake wrote: post #169
lostlogin wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I kinda get that they'd want to pay less if you were living in Poland, considering the cost of living Shouldn’t a company pay what a job is worth to them, not based upon what they think the employees costs are? This gets complicated fast as remote work, work from home etc all changes the equation. Does the end customer get to pay a different amount based on their location? From my experience the remote customer usu…

If companies paid what jobs are worth, they wouldn't make a profit. The same applies to goods: If you are charged as much as a good is worth to you, why bother buying it?

This isn’t right though. The worker produces something for their company. The company sells it and adds value as they do so. The company offers a track record, a method for getting the goods or services, a policy for returning or fixing the goods. They offer service when the employee is sick or on holiday - continuity. The company adds value to their worker’s work, and for this they can take a margin.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#187

Post by anoncake »

lostlogin wrote: post #186
anoncake wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If companies paid what jobs are worth, they wouldn't make a profit. The same applies to goods: If you are charged as much as a good is worth to you, why bother buying it?

This isn’t right though. The worker produces something for their company. The company sells it and adds value as they do so. The company offers a track record, a method for getting the goods or services, a policy for returning or fixing the goods. They offer service when the employee is sick or on holiday - continuity. The company adds value to their worker’s work, and for this they can take a margin.

Without the worker, the company would be making a profit of n€. With them, it makes a profit of n+m€. So it gains m€ of value from hiring them. If they paid that money as their salary, hiring them would have been pointless.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#188

Post by mbrodersen »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #129
pbourke wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier in my career: Some dude got up, smashed his keyboard on the side of his desktop causing a spray of key caps across the open plan office. Picked up his stuff and left. He was back the next day like nothing had happened.

This dude is my hero.

The guy has no self control and he is your hero? What are the chances that he will loose control and lash out when arguing with his girlfriend/wife? I would think pretty high. Self control requires a strong mind. He is clearly weak and the opposite of a hero.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#189

Post by mbrodersen »

cyberpunk wrote: post #161

I headbutted a PM once, after a meeting it was just me and him in a room and he got right into my face over some comment I had made (presumably about how poorly everything was going) and he pushed me back against the wall with both hands, quite a lot of force abd looked like he was gonna swing, so I broke his nose and walked out. 10 minutes later get a call from the agency saying my services are no longer required, g…

I wish I could upvote your comment more than once. Bullies get away with it when people don’t stand up for themselves.

Re: How to survive a toxic workplace and how to avoid creating one

#190

Post by mbrodersen »

runawaybottle wrote: post #51

Thinking you have friends at work is a mistake of youth. It is what it is. Most people will barely have any real friends in life. It’s a job that sustains people’s livelihoods - spouse, children, house, parents, dreams, future ... It’s super unhealthy to be best friends forever with anyone at work when it comes to this, mainly because everyone is playing for high stakes. If you are a true friend, never draw people in…

I found most of my best friends at places I worked or studied. Just choose carefully.
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