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Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

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Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#181

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

ehutch79 wrote: post #119
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learn. That's what I did. The issue is that many designers and engineers loathe Usability and Accessibility people (like Jakob Nielsen and Don Norman). For me, it all started with Don Norman's excellent book The Design of Everyday Things [0] (nee The Psychology of Everyday Things ). Reading that book changed the way that I view the world. I can't walk through a door, anymore, without evaluating its affordances and us…

For a long time nielsen groups webpage was one of the uglier websites on the web in the name of accessibility. That's part of where mistrust of them specifically comes from.

Also, like many pundits, there's a lot of "My way is THE ONE, TRUE WAY" stuff going on; which isn't a particularly good way to make friends.

They have the right idea (I have taken a number of NNG classes, over the years), but they are only one dimension, of a multi-dimensional space, and I have found it to my advantage to take a "hybrid" approach (which means that everyone is pissed at me).

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#182

Post by zxzax »

ratww wrote: post #178
zxzax wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the company has more information than you do, we don't know that. I certainly hope anyone in open source feels safe to call the police when a criminal violation is happening, regardless of what it is. Again we can debate individual laws and individual enforcement actions, but comparing any laws or police anywhere to the mafia is nonsensical. Let's focus on the facts.

As explained, there is no violation here, since the API was being used as intended. Also, considering the owner of the repository considers the Chinese state a dictatorship, it's pretty fair to assume "calling the Chinese police on him" doesn't mean anywhere near the same as it means calling the police in Europe or America. This is clearly the worst kind of threat you can make to this developer. You seem to be giving…

If the complaint is as easily dismissable as you say it is, without apparently even needing the consult of a lawyer experienced in Chinese law, then it seems no harm was done. The repository is still up months later, so that's where I'm giving credit to the repository owner. And obviously if the person is not a citizen of China then talks of investigation by the Chinese police wouldn't really be relevant, so again no harm done. The letter can be dismissed without needed to post it on Github and make an issue of it.

However I would still encourage open source authors to be educated on Chinese law and to avoid telling Chinese citizens to do things that could potentially get them arrested in China. If there is a real legal threat there it's irresponsible to ignore it. So in the end it's probably good that it was posted on Github.

Edit to respond to your edit: That's not my view. The issue is that the police have already been called by a different party. (or the equivalent of it, i.e. the company is contractually obligated to contact the government in the event of a violation, under threat of legal action from that government) The email appears to just be informing them of that fact. In my view, that is the only responsible thing to do. The only other option is to just not inform them, and have the police show up anyway.

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#183

Post by ratww »

zxzax wrote: post #182
ratww wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As explained, there is no violation here, since the API was being used as intended. Also, considering the owner of the repository considers the Chinese state a dictatorship, it's pretty fair to assume "calling the Chinese police on him" doesn't mean anywhere near the same as it means calling the police in Europe or America. This is clearly the worst kind of threat you can make to this developer. You seem to be giving…

If the complaint is as easily dismissable as you say it is, without apparently even needing the consult of a lawyer experienced in Chinese law, then it seems no harm was done. The repository is still up months later, so that's where I'm giving credit to the repository owner. And obviously if the person is not a citizen of China then talks of investigation by the Chinese police wouldn't really be relevant, so again no…

You just said "Let's focus on the facts" but you are presenting another invalid theory. The email specifically mentions that nobody was contacted: "Otherwise, I will have to transfer information about you to lawyers who will cooperate with github.com and Chinese government...". The email is just a threat to install fear on the maintainer. There's no Chinese police involved yet, no laws being broken, no private API being used, no DMCA, there's nothing. You're grasping at straws. Please stop defending the indefensible.

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#184

Post by NiceWayToDoIT »

slver wrote: post #130
NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I those will come now with significant price tag.

Source on your random claim?

None, what so ever, just guess, if someone acquires something it means he wants some gain out of it, what kind of gain we will see along the lines ...

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#185

Post by [deleted] »

IshKebab wrote: post #120
marcan_42 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What scares me is musescore.com. That website went from being a largely free repository of sheet music to a subscription service paying into the music industry, with no support for CC style licenses (it's either public domain or paywalled), locking everyone's sheet music retroactively behind a paywall regardless of actual license, sometimes in violation of said licenses (e.g. anything with a BY-NC or similar style li…

How do you expect them to pay for developers without some form of income?

[deleted]

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#186

Post by zxzax »

ratww wrote: post #183
zxzax wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the complaint is as easily dismissable as you say it is, without apparently even needing the consult of a lawyer experienced in Chinese law, then it seems no harm was done. The repository is still up months later, so that's where I'm giving credit to the repository owner. And obviously if the person is not a citizen of China then talks of investigation by the Chinese police wouldn't really be relevant, so again no…

You just said "Let's focus on the facts" but you are presenting another invalid theory. The email specifically mentions that nobody was contacted: "Otherwise, I will have to transfer information about you to lawyers who will cooperate with github.com and Chinese government..." . The email is just a threat to install fear on the maintainer. There's no Chinese police involved yet, no laws being broken, no private API b…

Again, they may be under a non-negotiable contract with a government to say that. The replies further down the issue seem to suggest that is the case. I don't defend the actions of the parties responsible -- But the fact is if there are no Chinese laws being broken, I don't believe you or I are in the position to make that judgement, or at least that case hasn't been made so far. If your concern is with an oppressive government, please don't attack people who are also being oppressed by that government, and please don't suggest people ignore potentially real threats that could get them arrested by that government. I agree with you, I don't want the author of this software to get in legal trouble.

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#187

Post by ratww »

zxzax wrote: post #186
ratww wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said "Let's focus on the facts" but you are presenting another invalid theory. The email specifically mentions that nobody was contacted: "Otherwise, I will have to transfer information about you to lawyers who will cooperate with github.com and Chinese government..." . The email is just a threat to install fear on the maintainer. There's no Chinese police involved yet, no laws being broken, no private API b…

Again, they may be under a non-negotiable contract with a government to say that. The replies further down the issue seem to suggest that is the case. I don't defend the actions of the parties responsible -- But the fact is if there are no Chinese laws being broken, I don't believe you or I are in the position to make that judgement, or at least that case hasn't been made so far. If your concern is with an oppressive…

Again you're making conjectures and not sticking to facts. The only person attacking a person oppressed by the CCP is the MuseScore developer. He's also the one threatening to involve the CCP. And you're being an apologist for them. It wasn't an alert, nor an attempt to make the plugin legal. The "Otherwise, I will have to transfer information" is a pure and simple threat. And you're the one making excuses for that behaviour.

If this is a real threat then MuseScore really handled it the worst way possible and they should be ashamed for purposefully threatening to endanger a CCP citizen. If it's not, it's just a mafia-style shakedown.

Once again: if you don't see a problem with calling the CCP police on someone whose only personal information we know is that he's anti-CCP, then I don't think we have enough ethical common ground to even continue this discussion.

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#188

Post by zxzax »

ratww wrote: post #187
zxzax wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, they may be under a non-negotiable contract with a government to say that. The replies further down the issue seem to suggest that is the case. I don't defend the actions of the parties responsible -- But the fact is if there are no Chinese laws being broken, I don't believe you or I are in the position to make that judgement, or at least that case hasn't been made so far. If your concern is with an oppressive…

Again you're making conjectures and not sticking to facts. The only person attacking a person oppressed by the CCP is the MuseScore developer. He's also the one threatening to involve the CCP. And you're being an apologist for them. It wasn't an alert, nor an attempt to make the plugin legal. The "Otherwise, I will have to transfer information" is a pure and simple threat. And you're the one making excuses for that b…

Again, musescore may already be involved with the CCP for contractual reasons. Basically all companies who do business in China are involved with them in some way. These things happen for reasons beyond their control, e.g. an investor sells everything off to foreign investors who then change the terms. If you're being careful, you have to assume they are already compromised. I don't apologize or make excuses, it's just basic safety. My view is that if this person is really worried about threats coming from a government, it would be wise to take those threats seriously. Github profiles are public, so it's not exactly hard for them to find this information.

Edit: I agree with you that if this musescore developer is lying about that, then that would be wrong of them. But I don't think I have enough information to make that judgement. So I think that's where we're disconnected. At least for open source projects, my view is to take any and all potential legal threats seriously until the matter is resolved with the lawyers.

Re: Audacity Aquired by Muse Group

#189

Post by [deleted] »

zxzax wrote: post #188
ratww wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again you're making conjectures and not sticking to facts. The only person attacking a person oppressed by the CCP is the MuseScore developer. He's also the one threatening to involve the CCP. And you're being an apologist for them. It wasn't an alert, nor an attempt to make the plugin legal. The "Otherwise, I will have to transfer information" is a pure and simple threat. And you're the one making excuses for that b…

Again, musescore may already be involved with the CCP for contractual reasons. Basically all companies who do business in China are involved with them in some way. These things happen for reasons beyond their control, e.g. an investor sells everything off to foreign investors who then change the terms. If you're being careful, you have to assume they are already compromised. I don't apologize or make excuses, it's ju…

[deleted]
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