Live data from Hacker News

Non-Fungible Taylor Swift

stratechery.com

181–190 of 245 posts

Re: Non-Fungible Taylor Swift

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not ironic if you really understand socialism.

Many socialist-adjacent philosophies are anticapitalist. Hence, the irony. Yes, yes, I know that it's not hypocrisy for anticapitalists to use money. I also know that not all socialists are anticapitalist. Still ironic.

A not-anti-capitalist socialist is not a socialist. TLDR: Capitalism is when production is determined by people holding capital. Socialism is when production is determined by the members of society. So the question being, should an economy be democratic or run by the rich.So long as socialists workers work democratically, there is no hypocrisy in earning money.

Re: Non-Fungible Taylor Swift

#182
post #28

The quote from Nilay Patel's Vox article hits on one of my pet peeves. > Nilay Patel wrote in Vox: > "Taylor makes a nice little argument in favor of paying for music. 'Music is art,' she says, 'and art is important and rare. Important, rare things are valuable. Valuable things should be paid for.' > This is an impressively-constructed syllogism. It is also deeply, deeply wrong.... On the internet, there’s no scarcit…

> How does such an obvious fallacy command such purchase among smart people? Swift is talking about "music" as an original work. Patel responds with an irrelevant point about digital copies of music. Obviously these are two different things! Yes, they are two different things. The problem is that artists (and record labels) want to get paid for the non-scarce thing: the copies, and not for the actually scarce thing:…

The time and effort of artists isn't exactly scarce either, if you treat it as a commodity. In my view, artists of every generation have had to figure out a hack that lets them earn a living while also pursuing their art. Possibly the greatest threat to the income of rank-and-file musicians right now is the decline in church attendance.

I know a lot of musicians, and virtually all of them who earn a decent middle class living earn more than half of their income from teaching classical music to children. The other half comes from a spouse with a day job. ;-)

Re: Non-Fungible Taylor Swift

#183
post #28

The quote from Nilay Patel's Vox article hits on one of my pet peeves. > Nilay Patel wrote in Vox: > "Taylor makes a nice little argument in favor of paying for music. 'Music is art,' she says, 'and art is important and rare. Important, rare things are valuable. Valuable things should be paid for.' > This is an impressively-constructed syllogism. It is also deeply, deeply wrong.... On the internet, there’s no scarcit…

The entire discussion is headache-inducing.

1) "Music is art," ...by definition.

2) "Art is important and rare." A particular piece of art may be important and rare. The quality of being art does not make things either important and rare.

3) "Important, rare things are valuable." Tautologically. Valuable things are important and rare. Value is defined by relative scarcity and relative desire.

4) "Valuable things should be paid for." My mother's love is valuable (and important and rare - I can't get it from anyone else.)

Patel is stating the obvious - the scarcity of Taylor Swift's music is a government-granted monopoly aided by technology that is largely unenforceable on the internet. He's being patronizing in even pretending like Swift was making a coherent argument, and he's not addressing it, but ignoring it.

> If consumers were unwilling to pay much for Swift's music because of the vast quantity of alternatives available on the Internet, Patel would indeed have a point. But consumers still want Swift's music, not other peoples' music. Even in the face of huge amounts of free alternatives, consumers still want Swift's music. That only proves Swift's point!

Not really. The mean price paid to listen to a Taylor Swift song has got to be at the sub-cent level. The average price paid to listen to obscurities that 99.99% of people have never heard of is going to be significantly higher.

Re: Non-Fungible Taylor Swift

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So some people believed in her and gave her a chance... backed her with their money ..invested in her and she re-pays them by attacking them and their investment. I used to be a fan of her and her persona but now comes off as spoiled and unappreciative!

People “attack” (read: criticize) their investors publicly all the time. Do you have a problem with all criticism of investors? Because that seems silly. Certainly they aren’t all above criticism. And contract disputes and negotiations play out in the public eye every single day. And if you aren’t opposed to the WhatsApp or Instagram founders criticizing Facebook but you are opposed to Taylor Swift criticizing variou…

Ummm Facebook was the acquirer of those companies not it's investors. I said investors not acquirers.. acquirers bought something of value your investors invested and believed in you when you were nothing. Helped you make it valuable! Believed in you!

I have never would never spat on any or would spit on any investor of mine even if we didnt see eye to eye. The acquiring company sure as they bought something valuable my investor help me create.

No double standard here and if Justin Bieber did the same thing I'd feel the same way ... so no gender double standard here.

Re: Non-Fungible Taylor Swift

#185
post #12
post #5

What this piece leaves out is that given this reasoning, Taylor Swift can simply declare another piece of art the "New Taylor version," thus completely devaluing the previous "Taylor version."

It's not like the "New Taylor version" will be valued completely independently of the previous "Taylor version." Her reputation underwrites the transaction; any transaction contributes to her reputation.

Exactly. Doing this would 'dilute' her and the "new new taylor version" would be next to worthless

Re: Non-Fungible Taylor Swift

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many socialist-adjacent philosophies are anticapitalist. Hence, the irony. Yes, yes, I know that it's not hypocrisy for anticapitalists to use money. I also know that not all socialists are anticapitalist. Still ironic.

A not-anti-capitalist socialist is not a socialist. TLDR: Capitalism is when production is determined by people holding capital. Socialism is when production is determined by the members of society. So the question being, should an economy be democratic or run by the rich.So long as socialists workers work democratically, there is no hypocrisy in earning money.

Even the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism says you're right. Huh. TIL.

Re: Non-Fungible Taylor Swift

#187

> In the future, artists will get record deals because they have fans — not the other way around. I'm not in the industry, so I don't grok it too well. Why would an artist with an established fan base need a record deal?

Before streaming, the label owned the means of production (professional studios and professionals), means of distribution (Vynil, CDs etc), means of promotion (deals with radios, magazines, channels etc) and it sort of operated like a bank. So it would give lots of money upfront and the artist would sign the deal to x amount of albums to be distributed by the label (which was kept very non transparent by design, so that the artists who were not business savvy always did a bad deal. There were all kinds of other shenanigans, like underreporting sales (to pay less for the artist) etc. Today labels lost a lot of their power in distribution (Spotify, Youtube, etc), a little in recording (recording is easier) but still have the promotion power. So they operate in a similar way but with deals focused on production and promotion. So an artist with fans would make a deal with a big label to get the promotion/production power they have and the bank function. So he/she would leverage on that to become a global star betting that this will bring more money that he/she owes the label.

Re: Non-Fungible Taylor Swift

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are probably more people that make ~$5-10 million and chill out than there are people north of $100 million. Lots of people likely do keep doing productive things that they enjoy, without the number mattering much. People at the top of banking are likely motivated by things like status and winning as much as by how many millions they have.

If you're the type to chill out when you've hit a certain amount you're unlikely to climb to $100m - as you've already chilled out long before. Bill Waterson vs Jim Davis.

My intended meaning was that I believe it is likely that people motivated primarily by money tend to run out of that motivation once they have $10 million. It doesn't buy a yacht or a mansion in the most famous places, but that's about it.

Re: Non-Fungible Taylor Swift

#189
post #19
post #3

Sort of tangential to the main point but - I find the new version of Fearless to be utterly lacking in "soul", "energy", "magic" or whatever you want to call it. The unquantifiable things that made the original so good are missing. Sure, the remakes are competent and perhaps even better technically, but after listening to both side by side (song by song, new then old) - to me there is no comparison. I went online loo…

[Not a Taylor Swift fan or hater] There is a common sequence of events in creator-driven popular entertainment, where an author or musician becomes too big to edit (or produce, if you prefer). The later works have a tendency to be bigger, looser, and lacking the focus that characterized the earlier works. Oft-cited examples: Steven King, Anne Rice, Tom Clancy, Alanis Morrissette, Tori Amos, Maroon Five, Aerosmith. I…

George Lucas.

Re: Non-Fungible Taylor Swift

#190
post #25

I suppose we'll see contracts include the artist not "de-valuing" their "own" works in such future where they are super-stars able to shape a story to direct their fans on what to believe.

I suspect a lot of young artists will have learned their lesson and attempt to retain some control over their masters, either with first right of refusal or requiring the current owner to sell it back to them at some sort of market rate at any time.
Post reply on HN