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Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

sciencemag.org

181–190 of 301 posts

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the theoretical prediction can't be calculated until the experiment is done that motivates the choices of what and what not to approximate, is it really a prediction?

That's what Duhem-Quine thesis in the philosophy of sciences is. The thesis is that "it is impossible to test a hypothesis in isolation, because an empirical of the hypothesis requires one or more auxiliary/background assumptions/hypotheses".

Not exactly. Analytic solutions to simple problems will produce as many predictions as you want from them, and you can test them in a year, two years, or a century from then. These highly approximated calculations, in contrast, will come out one way or the other, depending on how many of which terms you add (this is especially common in quantum chemistry) - and nobody will decide on the "right" way to choose terms until they have an experiment to compare it against. That means that they aren't predicting outcomes, they're rationalizing outcomes.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#182
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I recall, FTL neutrinos were the result of experimental error, not chance; and so are outside the scope of what sigma screen for.

In scope for the context of this thread though; your GP claimed that 4 sigmas means “it’ll probably pan out as being real”, your parent provided a 6-sigma counter example.

"It's 99.99% significant, if we assume the 10% case that we haven't fucked up somewhere."

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a theory about how well educated the mass of humans are, could be and should be. Bear with me. Roughly 2000 years ago, the number of people who could do arithmetic and writing was Now it is 95% of the world population, and 99.9% of 'Western' world. Lets say that Alexey Petrov is about as highly educated and trained as any human so far. (A Physics PhD represents pretty much 25 years of full-time full-on educati…

I agree wholeheartedly. We would live in an exceptional world. The obstacle preventing this is greed and exploitation of people who are born into low income situations. Rising out is the exception, not the rule. Affording many years of education is simply not an option for some. I wish it were, but this is another issue.

The evidence is quite clear that going to college doesn’t actually improve life outcomes very much at all. We mistakenly thought it did for a while, but what was actually happening is the people who were going to college were smart and very likely to succeed anyway.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#185
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sakurai, but it won't help you understand the 3 generations of matter because we don't understand why there are 3 generations at all. If you just want to learn particle physics, you can do worse than just reading the review sections of the PDG (pdg.lbl.gov) And it's probably not a great beginner's text, even though it's really good.

I would not start Sakurai without at least doing some of an undergrad book first, to get the basic concepts.

Sakurai is very clear, IMO, but requires a better understanding of linear algebra than a typical undergraduate text. But if you know linear algebra well, QM is pretty straightforward...

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#186
post #115

Alexey Petrov, quoted in the article, subbed in to teach one day in my quantum mechanics class :) It was the first day we were being introduced to the theory of scattering, and I will never forget his intro. He asked the class, “what is scattering?”, waited a moment, and then threw a whiteboard marker against the wall, and answered his own question: “that’s scattering”. Lots of times, physics classes can be so heavy…

I have a theory about how well educated the mass of humans are, could be and should be. Bear with me. Roughly 2000 years ago, the number of people who could do arithmetic and writing was Now it is 95% of the world population, and 99.9% of 'Western' world. Lets say that Alexey Petrov is about as highly educated and trained as any human so far. (A Physics PhD represents pretty much 25 years of full-time full-on educati…

Most people demonstrate pretty clearly that they don’t have the aptitude for serious physics. A substantial number of people can’t get passed freshman classes and that’s true even for the top few% of high school students.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#187
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have indeed often seen the names referred to without the term "nuclear".

Weird. This must have changed in the past 10 years or so, since I've been out of college.

This (very important) paper from 1967 calls them "weak interaction" and "strong interaction": https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.19...

Putting the word "nuclear" in the middle seems to just be done in textbooks and classrooms.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#188
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neutrinos faster than light had 6 sigma. It just shows probabilistic significance. Confirmation by independent research teams helps eliminate calculation and execution errors.

As I recall, FTL neutrinos were the result of experimental error, not chance; and so are outside the scope of what sigma screen for.

That's the point.

At the time it was very significant results, just like this one.

Turned out someone hadn't plugged a piece of equipment in right and it was very precisely measuring that flaw in the experiment.

You can't look at any 8 sigma result and just state that it must necessarily be true. Your theory may be flawed or you may not understand your experiment and you just have highly precise data as to how you've messed something else up.

Re: Particle mystery: physicists confirm the muon is more magnetic than predicted

#190

Honestly feel sorry for particle physicists... Their entire gig is spending billions on fancy equipment, and hoping that observe something unexpected. If they see exactly what they expected to see, all that effort was basically wasted. Also, a lot of "discoveries" turn out to be equipment miscalibration - remember those particles which supposedly moved faster than light a few years back? Always struck me as an odd wa…

> If they see exactly what they expected to see Why? Validating a hypothesis is quite valuable.

It's actually not at all. Or more precisely, no one treats it as valuable. If you fail to reject H0 repeatedly your career is doomed to mediocrity.
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