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Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

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Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#181

I also work in a very “woke culture.” In fact, as a straight, white, cis man I am in the extreme minority. I have been told that I can’t do my job which includes negotiating with LGBTQ+ companies because I am an “old, white, cis guy and there is always an unfair power dynamic there” just because of my identity. It is discrimination plain and simple, but I literally stand to have my career derailed if I fight back. On…

This reminds my of this meme:

"It Hurt Itself in Its Confusion!"

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/it-hurt-itself-in-its-confusi...

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#182
post #93
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you know how the other side felt all along :). Seriously, we are now asked to treat everyone with respect and that is a problem? Edit: No I don't mean eye for eye. I am merely pointing out, this is a male dominant industry where women didn't even have a chance for a long time. The moment we face little uneasiness, we are complaining and throwing temper tantrums.

Yes, that’s what it’s about. Turnabout is fair play. You should think through the long term consequences of that. I wish you weren’t getting downvoted because I think your comment reveals so much.

Eye for an eye really isn't a great way to run a society.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#183

Why would you talk to women at all professionally, unless there are reliable witnesses or video recordings? As we increasingly see, witch hunts are already possible by deliberately misinterpreting written statements like mails or bug tracker messages. I would not want to get into a he-said-she-said real life situation. Mike Pence understood this early.

Because I'm a professional, and strive to avoid treating people differently based on their gender/sex?

There's being a professional but there's also not seeing the situation you are in. I would be hesitant to be in a one on one situation in a private area with a female colleague, especially one below me in the organisational structure. Even an unfounded accusation could completely derail my life and career.

When I was young I had something similar happen. A woman went around telling people she had slept with me. We hadn't. Nobody believed my side of the story since "why would she lie?". This caused a rift with my best friend, who had a crush on her. I lost my best friend due to a lie I couldn't disprove.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#184

Anecdotal but my office is ultra -woke. There are endless internal emails about whatever-week, or veterans-this, or LBGTQ+-that etc etc. People have been hounded out and either quit or been fired for fairly minor "infractions" of the groupthink (...and also some people have rightly been fired for actual inappropriate behaviour). And guess what all this talk about "toxic masculinity" and generally vilifying all men le…

I utterly adore that my workplace has a strict ban on using any company resources such as the email system for non-work related business. The one time in eight years someone sent a political email they were formally reprimanded.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#185
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thought experiment: I do wonder if some boss in the future will only employ straight white males simply to avoid people "offending" others (it's hard to offend a straight white male in this new woke ideology). Of course this has the opposite effect to what the woke seem to want, but this is the world we have built ourselves.

Diversity is a competitive advantage.

Apparently the research on that is sketchy. It is only an advantage if specifically sought out and used. It requires work. Otherwise it can just lead to bad communication and less team spirit. (I am paraphrasing a recent article from somewhere)

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#187
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you know how the other side felt all along :). Seriously, we are now asked to treat everyone with respect and that is a problem? Edit: No I don't mean eye for eye. I am merely pointing out, this is a male dominant industry where women didn't even have a chance for a long time. The moment we face little uneasiness, we are complaining and throwing temper tantrums.

The problem isn’t to treat people with respect. The problem is that some few people are absolutely hellbent on interpreting any interaction through a lens of sexism or racism, and a large silent majority allows them for fear of drawing unwanted attention and/or harm. This is not to say that sexism or racism isn’t or hasn’t been a large problem, but the correction pendulum has really swung way too far for some people…

> The problem is that some few people are absolutely hellbent on interpreting any interaction through a lens of sexism or racism, and a large silent majority allows them for fear of drawing unwanted attention and/or harm.

A lot of people might not just be that good at what they do but manage to advance by way of their gender/race and scare away any negative feedback. Thus, given that their skills themselves won't save them, leveraging mob justice to do so is a viable strategy for them.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#188

I'm really glad to see this here. I don't have a better word readily available than sexism for trying to talk about patterns like this but when I use the word sexism , I think people think I mean "Men are intentionally exclusionary assholes just to be assholes because they simply hate women." and that's never what I'm trying to say. I find my gender is a barrier to getting traction and my experience is that it's due…

It's more like reverse sexism here. I totally get the behaviour here. You simply don't want to be on the receiving end of potential backlash when you're just trying to help someone. The calculus being you feel as if you might make a genuine remark only to receive a response interpreting said remark as the product of sexism e.g "out of persons A and B, I think B should run the company" where A is a woman and B is a ma…

One example I overheard was a female engineer talking to another female non-engineer outside their workplace just about their experiences in their jobs. I heard the female engineer remark something along the lines of "the Architect often shoots down my ideas because I'm female".

I sat thinking to myself... That's interesting because the architect shoots down my ideas too (different workplace, so I don't _know_ her situation) but it's certainly not because I'm female, because I'm not female, but it's probably because I'm an intermediate level Dev with lots to learn and the idea has some flaws in it that he can see that I can't.

One of the really good things for me about hanging on HN is hearing "X happens to me too as a man because (reasons) and has nothing to do with gender." That's been enormously helpful to me in trying to find a path forward in my own life.

I hope you get constructive engagement of your points. I don't like the characterization that it's sexism on both sides but that's not intended to be a big attack or something. I think we don't have good language for talking about these issues that acknowledge in a non-blamey fashion that "Gender is, in fact, a factor in outcomes and it's complicated."

So far, we mostly do a sucky job of trying to discuss this at all. It ends up being people on both sides pointing fingers and even if you are bending over backwards to not point fingers, it will get interpreted as such by a lot of people and that tends to go bad places, not good.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#189
Yes, woke culture creates an atmosphere where men and non-minorities may be overly cautious about what they do and say, possibly to everyone’s detriment.

But let’s be clear here. That’s not the root cause. The root cause is the undeniably real treatment of women and minorities that created that reactionary mode.

A number of people I talk to (curiously, they tend to be production engineers) think we live in a meritocracy where racism and sexism have virtually been erased. They usually believe a calvinist work ethic and capacity for enduring suffering creates an equal opportunity for everyone. But that’s just not true. I’ve seen cabs skip Black people hailing them to stop at me. I have heard the n-word used disparagingly, liberally and freely at informal gatherings in central Pennsylvania or by drivers for car dealership service centers.

I am very close to a woman lawyer who is regularly challenged about her school and where she passed the bar in a way that doesn’t match the experience of her male colleagues. I have seen video clips of a professor making inappropriate remarks about a student’s looks during a review of her work. It’s anecdotal, but not hard to find.

So, when you are upset that everyone is holding statements up to the light and wondering if someone’s ethnicity or gender is behind them, blame the people who actually caused it. It’s not the fault of ‘woke’ people or those who ‘virtue signal.’ It’s people who are actually, consciously or not, discriminating and perpetuating discrimination. They are at fault.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#190

It’s worth noting this issue/disutility. But I don’t give it a lot of weight vs. the historical default. Presumably this doesn’t occur if a female VC is giving that advice to females founders; maybe this will be an additional incentive to actually promote some women to be partners. VC is one of the most male-dominated professions around. More generally, it’s easy to look at just the costs of a social change, without…

> Presumably this doesn’t occur if a female VC is giving that advice to females founders

"She has internalized misogyny". Being a woman doesn't exempt you from being targeted by the woke mob.

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