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Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

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Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US prison system is all about punishment not rehabilitation. Theres a very strong “lock them up and throw away the key” mentality in many Americans view of justice.

Worse. Many Americans for some reason think prison rape is the funniest thing in the world.

It's funny how the most progressive ardent defenders of the prison system reform overlap with people who find funny that their political opponents get raped in prison...

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#182
post #48

Unpopular opinion: I think government services and offices should remain offline-first forever. They should offer online equivalents, but they should never assume or require digital adoption. I think this has two big benefits: - Minor point: Greater resilience to downtime, interruptions to service - Major point: a check on becoming a faceless entity with no exposure to the public. Think Google or FB if you get flagge…

Agreed!

And if government services do go online only, then I think the government is obligated to provide free internet access and training to those who can't afford it, in the same way that they provide roads and legal defense.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#183
post #170
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you got downvoted here. Private prisons are very much a thing in the US and in my state. Not to mention the Federal prison Industries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Prison_Industries Revenue $531,453,000 (2019) "Under current law, all physically able inmates who are not a security risk or have a health exception are required to work, either for UNICOR or at some other prison job.[4][12] Inmates ea…

>"Not sure why you got downvoted here" Some patriots probably got offended.

Please don't unnecessarily bring politics into the discussion. (It wasn't me, I don't have enough karma to downvote.)

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#184
post #48

Unpopular opinion: I think government services and offices should remain offline-first forever. They should offer online equivalents, but they should never assume or require digital adoption. I think this has two big benefits: - Minor point: Greater resilience to downtime, interruptions to service - Major point: a check on becoming a faceless entity with no exposure to the public. Think Google or FB if you get flagge…

Offline-first or offline-only can be a major barrier to accessibility. Those who cannot travel (due to a disability) or cannot travel far (due to cost) are disadvantaged.

Offering services online is a major game-changer for such folks.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#185
post #48

Unpopular opinion: I think government services and offices should remain offline-first forever. They should offer online equivalents, but they should never assume or require digital adoption. I think this has two big benefits: - Minor point: Greater resilience to downtime, interruptions to service - Major point: a check on becoming a faceless entity with no exposure to the public. Think Google or FB if you get flagge…

Offline-first or offline-only can be a major barrier to accessibility. Those who cannot travel (due to a disability) or cannot travel far (due to cost) are disadvantaged. Offering services online is a major game-changer for such folks.

This is a reason why an accessible national mail system is also a good thing.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#186
post #48

Unpopular opinion: I think government services and offices should remain offline-first forever. They should offer online equivalents, but they should never assume or require digital adoption. I think this has two big benefits: - Minor point: Greater resilience to downtime, interruptions to service - Major point: a check on becoming a faceless entity with no exposure to the public. Think Google or FB if you get flagge…

Right now the right to live and work of many EU citizens can only be applied for electronically and proven only through a webpage.

If that database field ever goes from 'true' to 'false' they will be fired, deported and never allowed into the country again.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#187
post #48

Unpopular opinion: I think government services and offices should remain offline-first forever. They should offer online equivalents, but they should never assume or require digital adoption. I think this has two big benefits: - Minor point: Greater resilience to downtime, interruptions to service - Major point: a check on becoming a faceless entity with no exposure to the public. Think Google or FB if you get flagge…

Well the problem with this in Canada is that it's not a binary decision between paper forms from an office and submitting a web form; there are a bunch of in-between technologies that also need to be supported: fax machines, order paper forms via an automated telephone system, file by phone, fill out a PDF, print and mail - how do you decide when you can phase out any or all of these? Also counter-intuitively, a phys…

> If I don't file required forms because I can't get to a government office who's accountable for that?

That is a big problem. But in my experience, we always manage somehow, if only by mandating someone else to do it for us. The level of unaccountability reached with online services here in France during COVID times is incredible. At least when we had physical places to go, i could always have someone face-to-face to have an argument about why the hell the system is broken. Now this is not an option anymore...

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a software engineer yet I don't do online banking (I literally "just go to the bank if I need something"). I don't consider myself a "luddite", I just don't see the advantage over traditional "offline banking". Same with shopping and all the other little nuisances of daily life.

Some version of this meme[0] has been circulating since before memes were a thing. I remember the Public School IT guy cracking a joke about packing heat in case the copier tried something funny (which sets a lower bound for the age of this joke because you haven't been able to pack heat in a school in three decades and haven't been able to crack that joke in a school in two). [0] https://i.imgur.com/6wbgy2L.jpeg

I'm about to wire up some doorbells in our house and my wife can't for the life of her understand why we didn't simply buy, "one of those wireless ones." It's because the wired ones just work and always will just work and never don't work. No batteries. No internet. No computer chips. Etc, etc.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#189
post #7

In contrast, I am sure we all know some older people who were not in prisson for the past 30 years and still don't know how to write an email, what a zoom call is or when it's appropriate to double-click vs single click items on a computer. I know people in their 50s who pretend that "they don't need this technology" or "I can just go to the bank if I need something". Sure, if you're in your 80s you might want to dod…

I'm a software engineer yet I don't do online banking (I literally "just go to the bank if I need something"). I don't consider myself a "luddite", I just don't see the advantage over traditional "offline banking". Same with shopping and all the other little nuisances of daily life.

As someone who has never really done "offline banking", I don't really understand how this works? Do you maintain your own ledger of all your accounts and their balances? Or are you driving over to the bank to check on things once or twice a month? If you have to transfer between accounts, do you go to one bank, get a check, then go to another bank? And this means you're entirely excluded from low-cost banks that don't have branches?

Honestly this is kind of blowing my mind. I've only been to the bank one time in probably a decade, and it was when I needed a $30k check to buy a car. Even my mortgage was done mostly over email (though they did send a guy out to have me sign paperwork.)

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#190
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few months ago I had to go fetch a simple registration form. Usually a matter of like 15 minutes at rush hour. Due to the pandemic, they had strict rules and required me to first book an appointment one week later for a specific time slot. Reserving that time slot was only possible via phone call. So I basically had to wait a full week for a one-page printout with a stamp on it. Should this be possible offline? Yes…

I am not suggesting that online, self-serve shouldn't exist. I am not even suggesting that we shouldn't encourage them. I am merely pointing out that we can't implement those _first_ at what will inevitably be the expense of in-person services where needed. Develop the paper forms. Figure out what needs an gov't employee or other official to help with the necessary steps. _Then_ offer complementary self-serve options…

In-person doesn't mean that paper forms are required. Self-service kiosks are a perfectly reasonable way to support in-person needs, and that way all the information will flow into the system the same way: digitally.

It's 2021. Why are we still talking about paper forms for government functions?

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