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It's time to build: a New World's Fair

cameronwiese.com

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Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#181

Post by colordrops »

WaxProlix wrote: post #168
colordrops wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread is a perfect microcosm of the american psyche - two extremes that only see the other side's extremism. There is little measured, nuanced opinion to be had. Both extreme jingoistic nationalism, and shame for any nationalism at all are unhealthy.

I don't think there's any of what you're saying here. Compared to almost any other country, objectively, there are more flags per capita in the USA, more flags displayed (where else does everything from a car dealership to a hardware store have multiple prominent flags?), etc. These phenomena exist everywhere, but pretending that it's not more prominent in the US of A is committing some fallacy of the golden mean or…

I don't think you understood what I said.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#182

Post by dehrmann »

karaterobot wrote: post #155
kratom_sandwich wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the argument is valid because it can be applied to nearly every event where people come together, including sporting events and concerts. But like with the Olympic Games, the World's Fair can serve as a catalyst for urban development projects. Also, the "science showcase" is a thing of the past, the BIE switched to "individual country showcase" a couple of years ago, which makes the whole thing a lot le…

I think the argument is valid. Much of the value of attending a live sporting event or concert is that nobody involved knows how it's going to turn out. You get to experience an unfolding spectacle in real time. That's not what a world's fair is. A modern world's fair would be essentially a bunch of companies showing off their latest inventions, in a highly coordinated and controlled way, for marketing purposes. A be…

> Much of the value of attending a...concert is that nobody involved knows how it's going to turn out

You have a point for sports, but concerts? They have their moments, but for the most part, it will be the same set list and the same performance they did in Cleveland a week ago.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#183

Post by dehrmann »

jhbadger wrote: post #80
nelsondev wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why bother showing up at the Olympics in person? We can just watch it on TV right? :p But to refute more directly, the unplanned interactions with other visitors, being able to talk directly with makers who built the things you’re seeing, the viral sense of wonder; all are good reasons to have it in-person.

The vast majority of people do just that. The small number of people who actually attend the Olympics in person are 1) journalists covering it 2) relatives of the athletes 3) people living near the venue who attend a few events out of curiosity and maybe have discounted tickets because of where they live 4) wealthy people who can afford the high cost of decent tickets with a clear view of the athletes.

The Olympics sound a little miserable to watch in-person because you probably won't have a clear view of a sport you're not all that interested in. And unlike most popular sports where it's an event where you pick a side to cheer for, most Olympic events are individual, so there isn't 90 minutes of cheering for your team, hoping they'll win.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#184

Post by dehrmann »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #78
poisonborz wrote: post #35

I admire the optimism and motivational tone of the article, but fairs and expos are a thing of the past. We don't need to build elaborate, carefully constructed single-use cities to showcase the scientific advances of the world. Those showcases happen day by day on the internet and mass media.

The annual CES convention is still popular. I see it as the modern equivalent of the world's fair, even if it is not quite the same and missing some aspects.

Is it? Half of it is every manufacturer from Shenzhen selling assorted components. The larger, prestigious booths mostly show the next iteration of consumer electronics, and there's the occasional thing that looks awesome enough for a world's fair, but is probably a mock that will never go into production.

Better parties, though.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#185

Post by Aeolun »

jiofih wrote: post #102
markdown wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ordinary people hang US flags off the front of their houses. In a bizarre indoctrination ritual, they make their kids pledge allegiance to the state from a young age. They think they're the greatest country in the world. Have you taken a good look at your own country.

I don’t get the fuss with the pledge of alliance (non American here). > "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Why is it bad to declare your commitment to the country you’re born in and it’s values? It’s not like you can’t leave (except for the IRS) if you don’t like it.

> Why is it bad to declare your commitment to the country you’re born in and it’s values?

Why would you declare commitment to a country just based on the fact that you were born there? Say you were born in North Korea, would you still do it?

I dunno, I’d rather declare my commitment to a country that actually deserves it.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#186

Post by zdragnar »

Iv wrote: post #162
Animats wrote: post #73

The last really prophetic world's fair was New York, 1939. That's famous for GM's vision of the future of 1960, the original "Futurerama" . Freeways everywhere. RCA had television. AT&T let you make free long distance calls. All that stuff happened. The 1964 World's Fair had another GM exhibit. Colonization of the Moon. Underwater cities. None of that happened. What could we have in a World's Fair now that looks ahea…

> What could we have in a World's Fair now that looks ahead? I want a roboticized home that cleans itself, that is able to do autorepairs, rooms reconfiguration. I want an auto-laundry and an auto-kitchen. I want it smart enough to manage air flow, temperature and humidity efficiently. I want all that to be voice activated. Please make it offline to not depend on some cloud thingies. I want a powerwall and solar pane…

I believe that is the basic setup to a few horror movies and episodes in TV shows.

Even so, I'm in, if it comes with an option to not be voice activated. Nothing about modern computing is more frustrating than voice interfaces, except perhaps windows updates.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#187

Post by WaxProlix »

colordrops wrote: post #181
WaxProlix wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's any of what you're saying here. Compared to almost any other country, objectively, there are more flags per capita in the USA, more flags displayed (where else does everything from a car dealership to a hardware store have multiple prominent flags?), etc. These phenomena exist everywhere, but pretending that it's not more prominent in the US of A is committing some fallacy of the golden mean or…

I don't think you understood what I said.

I must not have, I took you to be saying that my comment - and others like it - were a good example of how 'extremism' on 'both sides' was causing divides, when in fact I think my stance is pretty far from 'extremist', and definitely a far cry from what I think you're equating it with on the 'other side', if that makes sense at all.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#188

Post by riffraff »

gamblor956 wrote: post #165
Fordec wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 1984 Olympics, considered to be the most financially successful Olympics ever, were ran on the basis of renovating existing infrastructure, not building new stuff in a new city because the previous two Olympics were financial disasters. Also, yes, if you mess up LA the United States will still truck on. Also Nationalism isn't just flags, hate and hands in the air, it's also an outward expression of ideas and idea…

were ran on the basis of renovating existing infrastructure, not building new stuff in a new city because the previous two Olympics were financial disasters. As with...all...of its Olympic bids, LA was not the first choice for the 1984 Olympics. It basically got those Olympics (and 2028, and the 1932 Olympics), because nobody else wanted to host them. In 1932, the world was in the throes of the Great Depression; in 1…

> even London

wasn't the London one supposed to have been done cheaply and effectively, in contrast to the splurge of the previous two?

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#189

Post by markdown »

zepto wrote: post #175
markdown wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's abnormal behaviour. There's no reason to hang your country's flag in front of your house. I mean... maybe if you live near the Canadian or Mexican border and are feeling particularly patriotic or insecure. > I’ve seen people from all over the world wear or display their own country’s flags. You may have imagined it. If not, could you say where? It is a uniquely American thing. I mean, Indians will pull out a fla…

There are plenty of union Jack’s in England, and Tricolores in France.

Flying in front of residential homes? I don't think so. I could go onto Google Maps and in short order find a US flag on a random US suburban residence. It'd take days to find the same in the UK or France.

Re: It's time to build: a New World's Fair

#190

Post by Rule35 »

markdown wrote: post #177
Rule35 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which part of the pledge pertains to morals and values? Pledging allegiance to the things that protect and serve you. Support for something larger than yourself. The American ideals in the constitution and on the statue of liberty, even if you don't feel others support them as much as they should. The USA is a tremendous country that has done more to build protections for people into its law than almost anywhere el…

Even if all of this were true, there's no reason one should be pledging allegiance to the state. You can be proud of your country, your state, your city, and your community but to have to make pledges in front of other people to signal your patriotism is weird to anyone who wasn't brought up within that bubble of propaganda and jingoism. Have you seen footage of North Koreans pledging their allegiance to their govern…

> footage of North Koreans pledging their allegiance to their government

You're literally just inventing stuff to get upset about. There's no dictator in America. When you pledge allegiance to the country - or when someone else does - they aren't saying they'll serve anyone's orders, they're affirming their support for something that's actually great. Whatever about the hand and heart - that's a bit demonstrative, but the sentiment is a good one - a better one than almost anywhere else.

It would do you good to try to see the good, before you destroy one of the last remaining bastions of opportunity with ... whatever moral relativism you're on.

> It might seem normal to you, having been born into that bubble

Lol, did you just assume nonsense about my life or what. No, but I can see from outside that you're pissing on the best thing you'll ever have because it isn't perfect. You can't see that what makes it great is the intent.

> Patriotism is just tribalism

No, blind patriotism to any country you're stuck in, is. Patriotism to a country that tries, and succeeds, to be better than most, that's just acknowledging that you've got it good and have a duty to extend that to others.

> it's a cancer on any modern society.

The exact opposite. The lack of patriotism you so embody is the cancer. If America isn't good enough then which country would you work to support? Who is good enough that you won't righteously tear them down?

Leave America and sponsor a migrant on the way. Let them appreciate the thing you despise.

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