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A hacker got all my texts for $16

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Re: A hacker got all my texts for $16

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I should've been more specific/accurate. I meant brokerages, like Fidelity, Etrade, Schwab -- where you're likely to have more funds/$ than a regular consumer bank. They do offer it. Even Amazon offers it. And you are right, I have not seen any of the banks I use convert to authenticator (BofA, Chase, etc). I can only guess that they think it's too difficult for the average consumer to understand or implement.…

Unfortunately, Fidelity (at least for my account) only offers some non-standard "Symantec VIP" product. Does someone reading this know if there's a way to turn it into standard TOTP?

Yes, Symantec VIP is their TOTP solution they're chosen. Etrade also uses it.

I find it less friendly than the normal QR code, since you can't back it up or clone it (and it's proprietary, although that is not a huge concern for me). Basically the app is both the server and the code generator (?) because the website you log on to does not issue you a shared secret, the app creates it itself. Every device has its own unique code, so it can't be cloned.

Fidelity enforces that you can't have multiple devices floating around able to log in -- they don't let you enroll multiple devices if you opt in to it. (Although why exactly I don't know, because Etrade does). It is a pain because 1) I want multiple devices to have my codes as backup, 2) I want one of my family members to be able to log in -- although they say, you should make that person an authorized user who can use his/her own login + own VIP code.

It's a pain, and I'm still debating whether or not to activate it. The interesting part is they clearly have a fall back in-person way to turn this off / help you if you forget or get locked out. You have to even call them in person to turn this feature on.

Re: A hacker got all my texts for $16

#182
post #86

okay so how did he manage to pull this off and is this still possible? how would you protect yourself against this attack (i dont understand how it works)

The details are in the article, but essentially the attacker used a 3rd party bulk SMS service that allows it's users to use their own number and routes sms messages to said service provider.

The attacker instead used the cell number of the author of the article, and supplied a fraudulent letter authorizing the re-routing of text messages through the bulk SMS service.

The attacker works for a service, which purports to verify the routing and carrier settings for a given mobile phone number; I expect that their solution periodically checks the results and issues an alert if the results differ from a known valid value.

Re: A hacker got all my texts for $16

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, this comes up more and more often. I remember reading that Singapore had something like this (for contact tracing, I think), but they'd give you a dedicated device if you didn't have a phone. Ugh. I like telling companies who want my number: No, my phone is for people I know to call me, not corporations. Other times I tell them that I don't have a phone and ask them if they are refusing me service. Not sa…

Its been a bigger and bigger problem where installing an app is just expected and almost impossible to avoid in some situations. I also hate how its hard to explain to normal people. I don't have a problem with covid restrictions. I'm happy to wear a mask, social distance, etc. I just don't want to be sending the government with a horrible privacy/security history a log of everywhere I have been if I can avoid it. Bu…

> I just don't want to be sending the government with a horrible privacy/security history a log of everywhere I have been if I can avoid it.

Are you sure this is what your local app does? Many COVID-19 government apps were built reflecting this desire for privacy, I've written about the New Zealand one previously but lots are like this.

When you scan a QR code with that Kiwi app your phone learns you went somewhere and when ("This code is for the Auckland central library, and it's 1430 on Tuesday 16 March") but it doesn't tell the government, they don't care and could only make things worse by losing the information. It just remembers where you were.

Then when the government finds out that an infected person was careful to stay home except, oh yeah, they did pop to that library to get a book to read while they stayed home, for about 15 minutes, around 2-3pm on Tuesday, they send all those apps a message (it also goes in a press release but who seriously reads those?) and the app goes "Auckland central library? 1400 to 1500 on 16 March? That's a bingo" - and you get a message telling you that you should get tested, or to watch out for symptoms or whatever the government advice is in that particular case.

So effectively your phone is just simplifying work you'd otherwise have to do, instead of you laboriously checking the list of locations in your local paper or on a web page any time there's a breach, the phone matches it correctly for you.

If you're infected, you do have the option to have your phone tell the tracing people everywhere it remembers you going recently, but that's up to you whether you feel morally obligated to help them. Contact tracers in countries with low incidence are mostly from STI clinic backgrounds (which of course also need tracing), so "I went to the restaurant even though I had virus symptoms" is at least easier to confess than "I fucked some random stranger I met in a bar last Tuesday even though I'm married"

Re: A hacker got all my texts for $16

#184
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. There's nothing special about a mobile phone number when it comes to SMS delivery. The underlying infrastructure company given in the article, Bandwidth, provides phone number provisioning and bulk service for Google's Voice product. On-net (one number hosted by Bandwidth to another number hosted by Bandwidth) might be slightly more of a hurdle to intercept or redirect but off-net is fairly trivial. Heck, even w…

"Yes. There's nothing special about a mobile phone number when it comes to SMS delivery." This is false. "Mobile" numbers - numbers that are classified as belonging to an actual mobile carrier - are indeed different than non-mobile numbers. For instance, you cannot send SMS from a short-code to a non-mobile number. Which means, your twilio number (which is not a mobile number) cannot receive 2FA (or any other SMS) fr…

Short code delivery doesn’t depend on whether a number is assigned to a mobile endpoint, only if the owning carrier has an agreement to exchange messages with the short code provider. Google Voice can handle most short codes, as could Bandwidth.com’s old “demo” retail service, ring.to. For example, send the word “help” to 468311, the short code message service a lot of public agencies use for alerts, from a Google Voice number and you’ll get a response.

Any number can be provisioned at an SMSC, even toll-free numbers these days. But mobile providers—and the associated short code entities—are loathe to peer with many VoIP carriers. Partially for competitive reasons, partially because many short codes are premium billing numbers.

You’re right about non-mobile numbers being second class, but that’s largely because companies filter them out because “fraud,” which is also suspicious reasoning. I can get a hundred “mobile” numbers within a few minutes, rather inexpensively.

Re: A hacker got all my texts for $16

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The annoying part is most of them are very hard to move over to a new phone or backup

Do any of them work on desktops? I keep around a spare iPad to run my authentication apps, but I'd rather have it installed on my computer instead.

On Windows there's WinAuth: https://github.com/winauth/winauth

It doesn't seem to be updated anymore, but it works well.

Re: A hacker got all my texts for $16

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its been a bigger and bigger problem where installing an app is just expected and almost impossible to avoid in some situations. I also hate how its hard to explain to normal people. I don't have a problem with covid restrictions. I'm happy to wear a mask, social distance, etc. I just don't want to be sending the government with a horrible privacy/security history a log of everywhere I have been if I can avoid it. Bu…

> I just don't want to be sending the government with a horrible privacy/security history a log of everywhere I have been if I can avoid it. Are you sure this is what your local app does? Many COVID-19 government apps were built reflecting this desire for privacy, I've written about the New Zealand one previously but lots are like this. When you scan a QR code with that Kiwi app your phone learns you went somewhere a…

Nope, I know 100% it sends the record off to the government server and then when a location has a reported case, they call you using the info they have. Know the guy who built the system and he says while the data is encrypted in the db, the government also has the key to access everything.

Its also partly about the precedent it sets. Its now becoming required to carry a phone around with you and hand over more of your data without any opt out.

Re: A hacker got all my texts for $16

#187
It’s insane that providers can do this.

I note, however, that this attack seems to only be possible on VOIP routable numbers, and it’s my experience that banks, etc, will not allow you to use VOIP routable numbers for 2FA.

That’s definitely not the case for a naive implementation of sms 2fa as would be done by likely any dev using Twilio, etc.

Also, don’t forget that NIST deprecated SMS 2FA over 5 years ago. Here’s their reasoning: https://www.nist.gov/blogs/cybersecurity-insights/questionsa...

Re: A hacker got all my texts for $16

#188
post #172

In Australia it's mandated you're sent a message before rerouting or migrating to another provider. Surprised this isn't enforced in the other countries, it costs next to nothing to implement and is just an additional step in the account migration process. I'd love to see companies allow for opt in additional security measures, like banks or telco's calling me - having a verbal password to confirm things, that level…

Same in India too. And the reply SMS contains a code that needs to be given to the destination provider, for the MNP process to proceed.

I've only seen this extra step implemented by some providers.. It's definitely not the norm.

Re: A hacker got all my texts for $16

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being able to access your account for 3 days when you need to recover your password is not going to be a viable business decision for most services. I think you are SEVERELY underestimating how often the average user needs to recover their password.

My partner resets her Google password every time she logs in. It's just part of the normal flow for her. She probably does it with everything, but I'm not listed as a recovery on the other things. Something better would be great. She's probably an extreme example, but I think we techy people tend to have a warped view of how comfortable "normal people" are with effective password management.

> My partner resets her Google password every time she logs in. It's just part of the normal flow for her.

I also do that everywhere. As a matter of principle, I have decided to not remember any passwords in my life. I call it "login by email".

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