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Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#181

Post by DownGoat »

mrweasel wrote: post #142
WhompingWindows wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that'd be a solid strategy. You have to scan your ID to get into the store. So just to raid for a 10L of milk, you'd have to then break and enter, not just steal the milk. The store is probably riddled with cameras and, with the low population density, there's not a great chance you can get away with breaking and entering, much less stealing.

Currently no one would think twice about a masked person entering a store, so I'm not sure about the usefulness of the cameras. I would like to see how secure the entry points really are, because I doubt it a lock.

BankID which is used to open the doors uses a password and a second factor for authentication (hardware token or secret from SIM card).

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#182

Post by henhouse »

paganel wrote: post #112
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you have to scan your bank card (which apparently in Sweden is a secondary ID card) to enter. I wonder if they do an extra verification to make sure you just didn't steal someone's card, maybe with a PIN? Hah, I guess for the vandals, being blacklisted by the network would be a big hassle...

I wonder what will the non-banked people do in the future? Their life is in many cases miserable enough as it is, not being able to purchase basic groceries because you don't have a credit/debit card is next-level capitalist dystopia.

A lot of Sweden is already like this. They're a super cashless society currently. I have only lived in Stockholm, but a large number of places will not accept cash in any form. This is done for security and convenience reasons, and most Swedes from what I have seen seem to prefer and like this method. It definitely has implications of course... but none that seem to be bothering the masses.

Here's some info about it: https://sweden.se/business/cashless-society

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#183

Post by flanbiscuit »

mpclark wrote: post #85
eCa wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So this is basically run on a trust basis, right? No, from the OP: > works in conjunction with BankID, a secure national identification app operated by Sweden's banks You are identified, so it should be easy to see on camera who steals and then they can send the cops on you. My worry is more about tourists[1]. As someone who has travelled extensively in rural Europe I would not appreciate a growing network of store…

Spot on. I remember trying to get petrol in Belgium at night sometime in the late 90s. The country had its own smart debit card programme (very leading edge) and garages there had unattended pumps that would accept these cards to cater for out-of-hours customers. But, being a UK tourist without a local payment card, I was stuffed. Stopped at every garage along the way, getting increasingly concerned, before coasting…

This happened to me driving from Germany to the Netherlands on a Sunday. We needed petrol but could not stop in Belgium because all of the stations were closed and the machines only accepted a Belgian bank card. Luckily we were close enough to Luxembourg to get petrol there. This was around 2004/05. I wonder if it's still this way now

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#184

Post by distances »

detaro wrote: post #176
distances wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which EU countries have cigarette vending machines? I've never seen such a thing, in the countries I shop they're behind a cashier. Sometimes even hidden so that if you don't know what to ask for you're not getting it.

Germany, Austria, Italy at least.

Interesting, I'll have to keep my eyes a bit more open when traveling.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#185

Post by cromulent »

At least until a few years ago there were some unlocked open stores in rural Finland, where you just took what you needed and left the cash. The owner just turned up once a day or so to restock and take the money.

They may all be gone now, it doesn't take much to destroy that level of local trust.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#186

Post by 14 »

vages wrote: post #162

There will be a market for both automated and manned grocery stores in the future. Until we have developed artificial general intelligence, I wouldn't trust a computer to recommend a cheese to with a certain kind of crackers. In stores with a reasonably wide selection of goods, I usually have to ask for the location of at least one thing. Although locating stuff _could_ be solved by looking it up with an app, I would…

I like your sentiment but you are here on HN so assuming you are somewhere with food and an internet connection. Life is good. I see people around me begging on Facebook from the public library internet connection for cans to return so they can eat. They won’t care for one second about a human in the store they only care about getting the cheapest food they can. These automated stores I can really see being a hit especially if they can cut the costs of a regular store even by a small percentage.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#187

Post by eythian »

distances wrote: post #169
riffraff wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the regulation is violated all the time everywhere, i.e. vending machines that require some local electronic card (e.g. to prove your age for sigarettes). It's a pity, of course, but not a "new" problem.

Which EU countries have cigarette vending machines? I've never seen such a thing, in the countries I shop they're behind a cashier. Sometimes even hidden so that if you don't know what to ask for you're not getting it.

Netherlands and Germany have them.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#188

Post by bkor »

Bostonian wrote: post #149

Advocates of much higher minimum wages should understand that the eventual consequence will be automating many jobs out of existence, not just people doing the same jobs but for more pay.

> Advocates of much higher minimum wages should understand that the eventual consequence will be automating many jobs out of existence

That's been proven not to be the correlated in various studies. Similarly, there's a huge discussion regarding minimum wage in the US, while actually minimum wage adjusted for inflation went down significantly over the last few decades.

Automation happens in any case, especially with technology continuously getting cheaper.

Anecdotal: In e.g. Netherlands the minimum wage is lower if you're 15 until 21. Different amount until you're 21 or so. As a result supermarkets often fire anyone over 18 while pretending it isn't about the age. The minimum wage is already extremely low for 15-18, raising it would encourage more people to work in supermarkets instead of the current situation. Further, supermarkets are fully focussing on self-checkout. Despite the super low minimum wages.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#189

Post by ac0lyte »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #170
vages wrote: post #162

There will be a market for both automated and manned grocery stores in the future. Until we have developed artificial general intelligence, I wouldn't trust a computer to recommend a cheese to with a certain kind of crackers. In stores with a reasonably wide selection of goods, I usually have to ask for the location of at least one thing. Although locating stuff _could_ be solved by looking it up with an app, I would…

My store will shop for you, and deliver to your car. So if you value the time, that's a solution here.

As long as it's not produce. Everytime I try a shopping or delivery service a good chunk of the produce is trash. Bruised, under ripe, over ripe. Yes I am picky.

Re: Shops return to rural Sweden but are now staff-free

#190

Post by null_object »

mrweasel wrote: post #63

I believe Sweden has pretty good policing, and the Swedes are just about as honest as you could ever expect a nation to be, but if this was in "rural" Denmark and someone decided to raid the store, there would be very little stopping them. Police is in many cases at least 30 minutes away, if not more, and have no resources to investigate the theft of 10L of milk. In many cases the staff is a store is just as much pre…

My experience is directly opposite yours, funnily enough. I spend almost all my summers in Denmark and find people amazingly honest and friendly.

I think people are just people, wherever you go - neither more nor less honest than anywhere else (given the opportunity).

Even in Stockholm the 'local' police branches often close over the summer.

I've only needed to dial the emergency number twice (luckily) and both times I was placed in a queue. Another time when kids were smashing bikes on my street in central Stockholm on a warm summer evening, the police simply said there was no-one available to send.

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