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Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

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Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#181

Post by simias »

bookmarkable wrote: post #159
edgefield0 wrote: post #59

The fact that bitcoin mining on its own is now consuming as much electricity as the country of Argentina with no end in sight, as we are accelerating toward a climate change cliff, is sickening. Given this fact alone it's hard to see cryptocurrency as anything but a selfish crackpot scheme to generate a few dollars at the expense of humanity and our planet.

Sickening? Really? Don't you find it interesting that currency free of nation-state regulators would be attacked as anti-environmental? These same regulators would love to steer policy and public opinion by calling something that reduces their influence bad for the climate, even if such a thing is run on clean energy, solar, etc. That seems suspicious. Beware of what -isms you are repeating and supporting - they are…

Bitcoin is barely a currency. Its deflationary nature is the main reason it's been somewhat successful so far (because it rewards early adopters) but it's also be its demise (because nobody wants to spend a "currency" today that's by design going to be more valuable tomorrow).

Cryptocurrencies is what happens when libertarian techbros try do "disrupt" basic financial systems without taking the time to figure out how it's really working.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Peaple saying that embracing bitcoin is going to create a fairest world for all are either deluded or trying to sell you something.

In 2017 hundreds of projects (be it premined coins or "ICOs") got literally billions of dollars for all sorts of revolutionary projects. What are the results? Where's the revolution? Why am I know posting on HN through the blockchain?

11 years on and still no use case besides pyramid schemes and buying drugs online. Great job folks.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#182

Post by tomc1985 »

bookmarkable wrote: post #159
edgefield0 wrote: post #59

The fact that bitcoin mining on its own is now consuming as much electricity as the country of Argentina with no end in sight, as we are accelerating toward a climate change cliff, is sickening. Given this fact alone it's hard to see cryptocurrency as anything but a selfish crackpot scheme to generate a few dollars at the expense of humanity and our planet.

Sickening? Really? Don't you find it interesting that currency free of nation-state regulators would be attacked as anti-environmental? These same regulators would love to steer policy and public opinion by calling something that reduces their influence bad for the climate, even if such a thing is run on clean energy, solar, etc. That seems suspicious. Beware of what -isms you are repeating and supporting - they are…

How is this a rebuttal to being accused of using more power than a substantially-sized country and offering little in return for it?

Like, at least the current fiat model actually works for most people.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#183

Post by qeternity »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #172
jboog wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been hearing for almost a decade how Bitcoin was going to change the world and help humanity and yet...nothing. Other than some speculators and early adopters getting rich. I've yet to hear of anything "world-changing" BTC could do that isn't already done better by traditional systems.

For the past 10 years you could have kept your money in a savings account or Bitcoin. One of those has been decimated by a fiat printing press, the other has been a great investment. Bitcoin has already changed humanity for the better and it's only getting started.

> For the past 10 years you could have kept your money in a savings account or Bitcoin.

The classic false dichotomy by people peddling crypto. Nobody is keeping their money in a savings account. There are productive investments that aren't crypto.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#184

Post by K0nserv »

nietzsch3 wrote: post #156
blurbleblurble wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to see it as anything but that because cryptocurrency people don't collectively realize the gravity of the PR disaster they have on their hands. Central banks are looking for reasons to shut down the whole cryptocurrency space and in an ignorant public's eye, bitcoin's absurd energy waste is a perfect reason to do just that. Where is the coinmarketcap-like tool that indexes cryptocurrency projects' energy (…

Bitcoin uses 7% of the energy the global banking system uses and its energy use doesn't scale with adoption

Does that follow? Surely as Bitcoin becomes more and more valuable there's more and more incentive to mine and the more entranched it becomes more important to defend against 51% attacks become.

It seems to me that what has happened historically i.e. ever more people starting to mine will continue as long as Bitcoin remains valuable.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#185

Post by tomxor »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #154
tomxor wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel it would be hard to over-estimate the value in getting humanity off centrally planned currencies That's not what this is about, Bitcoin has utterly failed at that mission, and nothing about cryptocurrencies necessitates computationally wasteful proof of work. The only reason Bitcoin is still popular is because of people using it for speculating, it's not a viable currency.

Bitcoin continues to grow at an enormous rate. It hasn't failed at anything. Soon BTC will surpass the value of gold. We are actually on our way to getting off fiat.

> It hasn't failed at anything.

It has failed at being a usable currency, and not merely for socioeconomic reasons. A currency is more than just intrinsic value.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#186

Post by solosoyokaze »

jlmorton wrote: post #178
solosoyokaze wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the past 10 years you could have kept your money in a savings account or Bitcoin. One of those has been decimated by a fiat printing press, the other has been a great investment. Bitcoin has already changed humanity for the better and it's only getting started.

> One of those has been decimated by a fiat printing press, the other has been a great investment How has the US dollar been destroyed? It has enjoyed remarkable price stability, very close to the target rate, which is what everyone expects and can plan for. The other has seen astronomical, wild price swings, which no one could plan for, and while it's currently enjoying a high value (just as tulips once did), it was…

The dollar has absolutely been destroyed. Housing, health care... true inflation is rampant.

> The other has seen astronomical, wild price swings, which no one could plan for, and which is currently enjoying a high price (just as tulips once did), but which was worth 95% less just 10 months ago - and probably will be again soon.

People have been saying this at their own expense for a decade.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#187

Post by undersuit »

tomxor wrote: post #108
ssss11 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To give you the other side: It also uses less than all idle devices plugged in, in the US. Either Argentina doesnt use as much as you’d think or the US wastes a whole lot of power doing nothing. I’d argue thats way worse than mining bitcoin! Anyway its a sensationalist statistic designed to arouse your response. I’d expect theres heaps of things more wasteful.. office building services running 24/7 comes to mind

> It also uses less than all idle devices plugged in, in the US I'd bet that _all_ idle "devices" in in the US are providing far more utility by being ready and available to do ... anything (you did say all), than bitcoin which is _only_ a vehicle for speculating on intrinsic value being used by a tiny minority. Sorry but I'm fed up of these stupid comparisons, if bitcoin uses 0.56% of the worlds electricity, there a…

How much energy does encrypting all our video transmissions cost? I don't care how efficient the hardware running HDCP is, it's still wasteful to do so for every application and it's not even to protect the users nor would it be effective in the current form as such.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#188

Post by IntFee588 »

edgefield0 wrote: post #59

The fact that bitcoin mining on its own is now consuming as much electricity as the country of Argentina with no end in sight, as we are accelerating toward a climate change cliff, is sickening. Given this fact alone it's hard to see cryptocurrency as anything but a selfish crackpot scheme to generate a few dollars at the expense of humanity and our planet.

This is precisely why Ethereum and its new proof-of-stake mechanism will take over as the dominant currency in the next few years.

I wouldn't expect crypto to disappear. The market is currently worth $1.5 trillion, people will fight for its adoption to keep their investment.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#189

Post by Hiopl »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #154
tomxor wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel it would be hard to over-estimate the value in getting humanity off centrally planned currencies That's not what this is about, Bitcoin has utterly failed at that mission, and nothing about cryptocurrencies necessitates computationally wasteful proof of work. The only reason Bitcoin is still popular is because of people using it for speculating, it's not a viable currency.

Bitcoin continues to grow at an enormous rate. It hasn't failed at anything. Soon BTC will surpass the value of gold. We are actually on our way to getting off fiat.

But that high value (and the volatile prices) is entirely the problem (coupled with other issues like the extremely low potential number of transactions per second). As it stands, Bitcoin will never be anything other than an investment vehicle. Maybe another cryptocurrency will be a suitable replacement for fiat, but right now and for the foreseeable future, crypto is still too niche, too complex and volatile. At most we're seeing banks extend their offerings with cryptocurrency, but none of it points to widespread replacement of fiat outright. There are too many institutional, technical and social barriers.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#190

Post by [deleted] »

qeternity wrote: post #183
solosoyokaze wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the past 10 years you could have kept your money in a savings account or Bitcoin. One of those has been decimated by a fiat printing press, the other has been a great investment. Bitcoin has already changed humanity for the better and it's only getting started.

> For the past 10 years you could have kept your money in a savings account or Bitcoin. The classic false dichotomy by people peddling crypto. Nobody is keeping their money in a savings account. There are productive investments that aren't crypto.

[deleted]
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