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Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#181

Post by adevx »

throwaway_Ie8th wrote: post #147

There is a terrifying whistleblower interview from a Berlin elderly home, about the events after the vaccination. Of 31 patients who were vaccinated 8 died within 14 day, another 11 are in decline. https://2020news.de/en/whistleblower-from-berlin-nursing-hom... Similar reports came out of Sweden and other countries, after the first report. https://2020news.de/auch-in-schweden-sterben-die-alten-mensc... There are many…

Unfortunately any critical view of corona related vaccination is quickly downvoted to oblivion here. I am deeply concerned in how an experimental vaccine with very little research on long term effects is being promoted as our saviour. Vaccinating healthy young people who are statistically proven to not be vulnerable (there are exceptions which are highlighted in the media) sounds utterly insane to me. Smoking alone killed more than twice as many people in the Netherlands last year vs corona, just to get some perspective. I think we are making irrational short term decisions based on fear.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#182

Post by Ulrich2 »

ancymon wrote: post #17

As I understand, for example in Europe Pfizer is producing vaccines in single factory and not in sufficient number. Why production doesn't happen in more places? Couldn't they sell license to other European pharmaceutical companies to produce it? Is production process so unique it can't be replicated in other places?

Marburg started production a few days ago: Brand new factory just came online: https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-det...

This process started in September already. It was founded partly with EU and German money, and will be producing vaccines for the world.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#183

Post by giantDinosaur »

jryle70 wrote: post #177
giantDinosaur wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could, but it's clearly the part which can be replaced by anyone else. Without Pfizer we'd still have BionTech's vaccine, without BionTech we would not.

We literally have Moderna for the same kind of vaccine. Pfizer partnered with BioNTech because they'd had ongoing partnership. Pfizer's manufacturing and clinical test are the reasons why the trial was approved and millions of people got vaccinated in 2020. > clearly the part which can be replaced by anyone else Not clearly. Looks at trouble with AstraZeneca's trial and manufacturing issues. This is really a worthles…

I think it's important to distinguish the 'vaccine' as a complete package, that is, that which encompasses the distribution and regulatory framework (in the same sense that 'shipping' refers to more than just a single ship, but all the associated processes too), and the actual physical molecules that researchers pieced together. The latter wins Nobel prizes, the former wins the end of a pandemic. Both are valuable, but there's a clear difference.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#184

Post by ImaCake »

throwaway_Ie8th wrote: post #169
ImaCake wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These links appear to be, to use a technical term, Bullshit. From my admittedly bad German skills, I can see that the level of reporting here is terrible, completely focused on the single issue of "vaccines are bad", and probably will lead to the deaths of a lot of people.

Would you even be able to disagree with authority? Have you ever in the past?

HN doesn't really have a place for ad hominem attacks or people unable to hold two contrasting ideas in their head at the same time. I am more than happy to disagree with authority and yet think they are doing the right thing (or vice versa).

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#185

Post by Reason077 »

corty wrote: post #172
bipson wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the contract with the EU included the UK factory(ies) as a (potential?) supplier to the EU. UK signed the contracts slightly earlier and jump-started the programme by issuing an emergency approval a few weeks earlier than the regular approval by the EMA. And above all, it seems despite all efforts of coordination and treaties (COVAX), almost all players (except Norway) are playing the auction game and hoarding.…

The rest of the world will get it's vaccines after the first-world states are all vaccinated. And while it sucks to live in a third-world country where vaccinations will come 2022 or 2023 maybe, I can't see any other way, except if the third world would do their own production. Letting more people in the first world die to save some in the third world would be politically impossible.

The problem is that letting the virus continue to circulate unchecked in the developing world just gives it more opportunities to mutate into new, possibly vaccine-resistant variants. Variants can then spread back to infect the first world, and as we've already seen, this can happen quite quickly.

A global vaccination strategy is needed if we really want to get on top of Covid for the long term.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#186

Post by throwaway4good »

ImaCake wrote: post #174
throwaway4good wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just a layperson. But given the scale of these vaccination programs; I think the question of how vaccination can affect the natural evolution of the virus is one that at least should be allowed to ask.

I am a biologist, and not a virologist. I would suspect we are never getting rid of COVID. But vaccination could turn it into something not much worse than a cold or at least the flu. The virus will mutate and change in ways that make it more infectious, but probably not more virulent.

The comment that got flag-killed linked to the wikipedia of Marek's disease.

A disease that resides amongst chickens for which there exists a vaccine that prevents the disease but not the spread of the virus. And is an example of a scary story (told by antivaxxers I assume) where the introduction of a vaccine allowed the virus flourish and turn itself into a much deadlier form it otherwise would not have had.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#187

Post by marshmallow_12 »

mola wrote: post #155
marshmallow_12 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why am i getting downvotes? The hareidim ignore lockdown because their way of life is more important to them even then some deaths. Difficult for an outsider to understand. As for being anti vax, the vaccine is practically being forced down their throats. There will be a pushback (not that i agree). (and yes there could be more compliance, this is not the forum).

Israeli here. Their way of life is not threatened by a vaccine nor by lockdown. No more than any other citizen of israel. Their leadership still has ghetto mentality and sees the state as their enemy, so they always choose to go against it while crying Nazis. It doesn't matter that these so called Nazis are jews themselves. This is the sort of mentality that 2000 years of diaspora creates. Their way of life is now de…

you are just spewing out old zionist propoganda. Its all been said before. And the secular leadership hasn't exactly covered itself in glory. You are entering, what? Your fourth consecutive election? point to me a single jewish leader in israel who would compare the state to the nazis? Not one. And they love the secular the same as anyone. At worst they hate their ideology. If you cannot distinguish yourself from your ideology, then yes, they do hate you.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#188

Post by throwaway_Ie8th »

lucd wrote: post #104

Here is some chart showing vaccination effect on hospitalization for severe forms. Very telling. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/israel-severe-hospitaliza...

The chart shows that patients below age 60 have been hospitalized 80% more for severe Covid after vaccination.

Hard to not comment this cynically. That is bad.

Early vaccinated patients over 60 have 40% improvement. Keep in mind that the group older 60 is smaller in size compared to under 60, and the effect is smaller that adverse response in younger. Net negative.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#189

Post by it_robot »

lucd wrote: post #104

Here is some chart showing vaccination effect on hospitalization for severe forms. Very telling. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/israel-severe-hospitaliza...

ehhhh im not sure how you are reading this but the chart looks quite bad

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#190

Post by thu2111 »

throwaway4good wrote: post #23
jansan wrote: post #10

The Google COVID-19 statistics for Israel show that cases and deaths are declining, but not at a faster rate than elsewhere in the world. Reported deaths lag behind sometimes for weeks and new deaths were caused by infections weeks ago, so vaccination may not have much effect on deaths, yet. But the number of positive tests should have gone down considerably with 50% of the population vaccinated. Are all these aympto…

Exactly. I don't understand why it is so unpopular to ask this obvious question? The numbers are falling all over the western world; probably because the policy response is largely same and maybe also because the virus' natural cycle is at the same stage. Given how much further Israel is, one would have expected it to stick much more out in the statistics. But it does not?

The numbers are falling all over the western world; probably because the policy response is largely same and maybe also because the virus' natural cycle is at the same stage.

Probably the latter. Mortality doesn't seem to be affected by (covid specific) policy:

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w27719/w277...

https://ideas.repec.org/p/wai/econwp/20-06.html

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5...

(there are lots of studies like these, I just picked three more or less at random)

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