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Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

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Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#181
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you use SponsorBlock. Been using it for months, it greatly improves the youtube experience.

And greatly removes the way these creators can actually pay for their lifestyle of creating. Good job!

Well some of us must create the evolutionary pressure for these systems so that we can converge on a system that is not a waste of time for the consumer AND profitable for the creator. It is what it is.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#182
post #114

People are mentioning technical & payment processing hurdles, but those are all easy to figure out. Look at the gaming industry, mobile app stores, iTunes, online gambling, toll booths, tipping on various online platforms. Micropayments are most definitely already a thing, and have been for a while. A better version of your question is – why do newspapers charge for a monthly subscription instead of a per-article fee…

Ultimately micro transactions make less money than subscriptions because of human psychology. When you are charged a flat rate per unit you consume, you tend to consume less because you know the cost is proportionate to your action. They receive immediate positive feedback that their consumption has a negative consequence: cost. The profit in this model is limited by not only the rate of consumption but also for the rate at which the consumer learns not to consume. With the monthly model, the cost per unit gets cheaper as the consumer consumes more of the service experience, allowing the user to “intend” to utilize more than they are paying for but in reality with a majority of the platforms userbase, the opposite happens. This leads to a system where the actual cost calculation is abstracted from the user and they are left with just the question of whether they can afford the maximum cost per time period or not.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#183

I read through a ton of comments and didn't see anyone really mention twitch. On twitch you can buy with credit card bits. A bit is about 1 penny. But you usually buy $5 bits incrementally. You can watch ad for 10 bits sometimes too. You can then give anywhere from 1 bit to whatever to the streamer. Some streamers will set minimums of 5 or 25 bits. At end of month the bits are converted back to real money minus twitc…

But the thing, for news at least, is: I don't want to pre-pay 10 different news sites, that I may or may not use.

That would work if it was like: I pre-load money into a service (i.e paypal). Then I use that account to unlock articles/donate to many different sites. Then, at the end of the month, paypal (or whatever the service is) makes 1 payment to all those sites, for all users combined.

That way, instead of me transferring 1 cent, twice, to New York Times, Paypal could do 1 large transfer of all contributions.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#184
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are miners incentivized to maintain the network?

I was curious and looked into this myself. According to Coinbase[1]: > users provide the computational power required to verify their own transactions, allowing transactions to be processed without fees [1] https://www.coinbase.com/price/nano

So, if someone is on their phone and wants to read an article (thus paying 1 cent for it), they need to either open the mining app on their phones, or turn on their computers?

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#185
post #166

You can give someone as little as a dollar via a service like PayPal. In the world today, that's pretty small. I think the endless discussion of a desire for "micropayments" is just another excuse for "We don't really want to pay for content and we imagine if you get it down to a penny, that's so close to zero, we think it would basically be free." I imagine if someone solved it, there would be some new complaint (li…

> You can give someone as little as a dollar via a service like PayPal. In the world today, that's pretty small. In theorie you can with "friends and family", but you can't charge a dollar. It costs 2.9% and $0.30 for any transaction. You end up with something like 0.68 before transfer costs to your actual bank.

I remember reading a blog a few years ago, where the blogger said to not even bother sending less than (I think) 5~8 bucks (in BRL). He said that after all fees and everything, he would receive too little to make a difference, and the person donating would be basically wasting money

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#186

As sometime who has worked full time on this for over 5 years now, I have found a few aspects of your answer: The technical challenges of doing it with credit cards are overwhelming (in CC parlance, a "microtransaction" is anything under $10) due to fee structure. You can simplify this by using a different payment rail (in my case, Lightning over Bitcoin), but now you have a different problem: nobody has Bitcoin. You…

>You can simplify this by using a different payment rail (in my case, Lightning over Bitcoin), but now you have a different problem: nobody has Bitcoin. The problem is that Lightning essentially is a subscription service. The user has to lock much more Bitcoin in a channel in order use Lightning for micro transactions, which defeats the purpose. The minimum fee to get a Bitcoin transaction confirmed in a reasonable a…

"often over $20" is a lie. Fee for the priority transaction (to skip the queue) is $7 right now. It rarely exceeds that amount. You don't usually need a priority transaction when funding LN channel, so ~$1 fee will be enough.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#187
post #114

People are mentioning technical & payment processing hurdles, but those are all easy to figure out. Look at the gaming industry, mobile app stores, iTunes, online gambling, toll booths, tipping on various online platforms. Micropayments are most definitely already a thing, and have been for a while. A better version of your question is – why do newspapers charge for a monthly subscription instead of a per-article fee…

> why do newspapers charge for a monthly subscription instead of a per-article fee? The simple reason is that the numbers just don't work out.

Is this really true though? Aren't ad prices very very low, how much do those dubious ads pay that appear next to the articles we read? Surely not that much?

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#188
post #114

People are mentioning technical & payment processing hurdles, but those are all easy to figure out. Look at the gaming industry, mobile app stores, iTunes, online gambling, toll booths, tipping on various online platforms. Micropayments are most definitely already a thing, and have been for a while. A better version of your question is – why do newspapers charge for a monthly subscription instead of a per-article fee…

At the gaming industry, noone i know of that plays chess has implemented this. At Lichess there millions and billions of games played each month and they don't pay with micropayments for each game. Other chess websites charge monthly fee. Micropayments are a hassle for any system that has people, actual human organisms, being responsible for a gazillion of small transactions. The involvement of a human increases the…

> Micropayments are a hassle for any system that has people, actual human organisms, being responsible for a gazillion of small transactions.

When you visit any website, a dozen or so companies are charged tiny amounts of money for showing their ads to you. Charging a single entity, the reader, is much less complicated. So it's not a technical limitation.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#189
post #157

As sometime who has worked full time on this for over 5 years now, I have found a few aspects of your answer: The technical challenges of doing it with credit cards are overwhelming (in CC parlance, a "microtransaction" is anything under $10) due to fee structure. You can simplify this by using a different payment rail (in my case, Lightning over Bitcoin), but now you have a different problem: nobody has Bitcoin. You…

Micro-transactions require micro-products, and those are a hard sell. Compare a tangible market situation: remember the old Bazooka gum that used to say "3 cents" on each piece? Few customers are going to walk into a store and buy a single piece, no matter how cheap and frictionless payment is. At that level, the burden of thinking "I have to actually go and buy it" exceeds both the financial cost and likely the perc…

I guess this is obvious, but youtube videos and online articles are micro-products. It would be trivial to charge people 10 cents an article if people felt it would work. You would browse youtube as usual, no technical need for any extra friction at all. At most there might be a legal requirement to remind you that you will be charged.

The challenge is probably mostly that a lot of publishers would need to get together and create a unified account that could be charged.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't micropayments a thing?

#190
post #4

Processing a credit card costs $0.02 per card, plus interchange of up to 3%. Debit processing is $0.22 cents plus 0.05%. Both of these are the baseline cost, your merchant processor often won't be able to even get these rates for their own wholesale rates. Now try and build a micropayments ecosystem ontop of this infrastructure that is very expensive to interact with (in the context of $0.01 charges). Amazon can do i…

The answer to this, which I am a little surprised no one has tried to implement (maybe someone has tried?), is to charge the end customer in some larger amount - say $5 or $10, and then draw down the micro transaction amount as you go. So if you could pay $5 a month (or at a time) but gain access to every article, site, video, piece of content etc, and it auto deducts from your balance then you don't have the transac…

This is the answer I envision exactly. The NMA simply needs to offer an annual solution. I think $50 to $100. I have always wondered why it hasn't been done before now also. They complain constantly about people reading their work for free, yet provide no honest mechanism for payments...and expect people to sign up for monthly charges to read one article. Why would anyone pay 5x, 10x to read on article in a paper they know they will not need to read again if they are just researching a particular topic and it comes up in their search results? The rest of the paper is probably dross and yet you are expected to pay for the entire thing and pay for ads etc that have no relevance to you. The quality of the paper would be forced to improve under such a system and they could no longer hide behind forced sub revenues.
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