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Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

theguardian.com

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Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#181

Post by abeppu »

abeppu wrote: post #166
fuoqi wrote: post #140

I wonder if electrical grids are really prepared for mass adoption of EV. For example, UK is already quite reliant on the HVDC link [0] from France. In 2016 it got damaged resulting in a reduced capacity, which has caused serious concerns at the time. And it's not only about power generation, it's also quite probable that a lot of existing power lines would have to be updated to satisfy a higher demand for electrical…

I think the other side of the coin is also interesting: If we're smart, could we use EVs to make the grid more resilient? Could we be thinking of EVs both as transportation and as flexible and hyperlocal power storage. E.g. parked EVs could reverse-meter if there's very high power demand, and absorb cheap (or negative cost) power when it's really windy in Texas, etc.

I guess one more cynical read of the same suggestion is that, having failed to gather the political will to modernize our power infrastructure, we're grasping at straws by suggesting that we can piggyback off of private consumption to cobble together some of the same benefits.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#182

Post by gregkerzhner »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #135
gregkerzhner wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Curios to hear about people's experiences owning an EV without access to a charger at home.

Obviously everyone's use case is different. The way I would frame it is this: 1. Your car has x range. Let's say 200 mi. or 321 km. And takes 1 hr. to charge. (Just for reference, my current car gets refilled with gas every 400 km. and takes 10ish minutes to do the task). 2. How long does it take you to travel that range in everyday life. For me, it would take about 2 weeks. But lets assume that its winter or I'm dri…

Nice, I was genuinely curious about this, and it seems like a solid strategy!

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#183

Post by mprovost »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #172
hntrader wrote: post #167

If a country relies only on oil and gas for electricity, are EVs any better than petrol-powered cars as far as emissions go?

Yes. If all your cars get the maximum use out of the energy in the petroleum and you provide atmospheric pollution controls on the power plants that eliminate smog/particulates then you have a net win, even if your total energy from petroleum doesn't change.

And you can locate power plants away from population centres so the pollution isn't being generated right outside homes and schools.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#184

Post by turtlebits »

imglorp wrote: post #68
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is charge times. Gas fillups take a few minutes at most - meaning no long lines. Once charges are close to that speed I think EVs will really take off.

On the road for long trips, yes absolutely. But the EV usecase also includes low and medium speed charging at home overnight, and while at your destination (say a retailer) which you can't do with your ICE car. So overlapping but not identical comparison.

You cannot get any meaningful charge at at retailer (assuming L2) unless you're there for over an hour, and that only nets you ~20-22 miles.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#185

Post by gumby »

hntrader wrote: post #167

If a country relies only on oil and gas for electricity, are EVs any better than petrol-powered cars as far as emissions go?

Even in that case, yes, as large plants generate power more efficiently and more cleanly than a bunch of smaller power plants (i.e. engines).

However the major power grids are no longer 100% fossil fuels.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#187

Post by paperwasp42 »

abeppu wrote: post #181
abeppu wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the other side of the coin is also interesting: If we're smart, could we use EVs to make the grid more resilient? Could we be thinking of EVs both as transportation and as flexible and hyperlocal power storage. E.g. parked EVs could reverse-meter if there's very high power demand, and absorb cheap (or negative cost) power when it's really windy in Texas, etc.

I guess one more cynical read of the same suggestion is that, having failed to gather the political will to modernize our power infrastructure, we're grasping at straws by suggesting that we can piggyback off of private consumption to cobble together some of the same benefits.

Ding ding. Ideas like this are fantastic and I believe should be pursued. But it's ultimately going to be a band-aid (and a costly, fragile one at that), not a holistic solution.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#188

Post by waiseristy »

mrtnmcc wrote: post #16

Will be watching for the success of Rivian and Cybertruck to see if the rural market can accept electric.. but can't think of any good reason why not, other than pride and prejudice. (FD, I grew up in the country).

I have a feeling Rivian and the Cybertruck will not be able to penetrate the rural market, at least not any more significantly than the Raptor or FCA's souped up half-tons. They fill the same high $$$$$ light duty niche that wealthy ruralites like to buy as a daily driver.

Ford is introducing hybrid trucks which I predict will not only become the new default, but also beat the other manufactures to market. Rivian will not ship more than 1000 trucks in 2021, and the cybertruck, at this moment, is complete vaporware.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#189

Post by waiseristy »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #62
pretendscholar wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Range anxiety?

Tesla cybertruck claims over 500 miles if range, which is more than most gas vehicles...

The Tesla Cybertruck is, as of Jan 22, 2021. Vaporware. Lets see if they actually manufacture the vehicle first

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#190

Post by jtaillon »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #164
natch wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think they claimed that everyone has access at home. They said “the use case includes” which doesn’t exclude other possibilities. There are many great options for charging if you choose your car wisely. Our apartment building with six parking spaces has three Teslas and no charging on site. We do just fine. Charging takes about 15 seconds of my day on work days. And on the occasion when I need more, it’s quic…

This is what always happens when I bring up product problems about EVs. Everyone on HN who owns a luxury car Tesla in SV or some major metro with their six figure plus salary gets all bent out of shape, and ask "omg why can't everyone do this!" It's tone deaf and out of touch. EVs simply are not there yet. They're ludicrously expensive, inconvenient to refuel, don't offer utility like ICE trucks/SUVs, can't be charge…

The thing is, they're not "ludicrously expensive". Sure, Teslas and Porsches and Jaguars are, but you can also get a late-model used Nissan Leaf for under 10k, or a brand new Kia Niro for ~30k after tax credit. That's well within the bell curve of what people spend on ICE cars, used or not. A Leaf might not meet your needs, but it's not like there aren't other options out there. If you factor in longer-term costs like fuel cost, maintenance, and wear-and-tear, the equation tilts even further towards EV.

Not to say they shouldn't be cheaper, but they'll definitely get there. We're pretty close to price-parity as is (just not tons of options).

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