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Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

economist.com

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Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in my experience. I also lived in Sweden and UK. Blood tests are usually only a reactivate thing. You're sick you get blood tests. As prevention not as common I'm afraid.

The reason Sweden doesn't do regular health checks of the population is because there is no good scientific evidence that it has any effect. And that if a person feels healthy, they most likely are. I think the similar reasoning is used in other countries. If you can read swedish/use Google translate, this page explains it very clearly: https://www.1177.se/fragor--svar/nationellt/behandling--hjal...

> The reason Sweden doesn't do regular health checks of the population is because there is no good scientific evidence that it has any effect. And that if a person feels healthy, they most likely are.

I think this is naive: there are a number of reasons people in Sweden don't easily get health-checks, and among these are certainly cost-saving, where the healthcare representatives who you need to contact before speaking to a doctor or nurse act as gatekeepers to the system. This 'rationing' of resources can sometimes have dire consequences, as happened to a former colleague of mine, who was denied the in-person checks he needed and almost died as a consequence.

There's also an enormous amount of peer-pressure in Sweden to be skinny, fit and actively go to the gym several times each week. A fat person is an extreme rarity in Stockholm. Couple this with an ingrained cultural 'guilt-complex' instilled in everyone not to be a 'burden' on anyone else, and the health-service is suddenly transformed into an 'emergency-only' institution.

Naturally that may be seen as a positive - although for some people it may have bad outcomes. It certainly contrasts with my extended family in Spain, who have tests for every possible malady at all times. But otoh that seems to work pretty good too, as one of my uncles died last year at the age of 102.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#182
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I beg to differ. What is considered as normal in some cultures, can be considered offensive in other cultures. It's not because those people lack empathy.

What matters is who is doing the considering. Each friendship between people is its own "culture" in that sense; I don't generally do things that my friend would consider offensive, if they are actually my friend. It's nothing to do with the wider culture or ethnic environment, or what third parties may or may not be offended by: I don't do things that I know would hurt my friends.

> I don't generally do things that my friend would consider offensive, if they are actually my friend.

> I don't do things that I know would hurt my friends.

These two statements seem like they could be in conflict with each other. Suppose your friend has a methamphetamine addiction, but they consider it offensive for you to bring it up. Do you not bring it up ever because it's offensive to them?

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#183
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan wearing face mask 24/7 since the 90s I believe (I wonder if it was all started after the diesel scandal)

This is not correct. Before covid only people who felt like thay might have a cold or similar wore face masks, to reduce risk of infecting others. (This is my understanding after living there for one year and then travelling for a month every other year for ~20 years. I’m not native though so there may be some nuance to mask wearing I’m missing)

Allergy sufferers as well.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#184
post #47

What's not mentioned in the OP: - INSANE peer pressure. If you're skinny as a twig in the US, you're probably considered normal in Japan. If you're actually an obese person (again, in the US standard), people here wouldn't even look at you straight. This kind of environment put a huge pressure for one to stay in shape. - INSANE obsession for health. I hear that Americans are obsessed with health, but oh boy, have the…

A culture that promotes health and well-being sounds great to me. Here in the West any criticism of someone's health gets you sent to HR, or accused of hate speech (ok I'm exaggerating a little but I don't think we're far off from that). Perhaps after covid people will take their health more seriously? Edit: by health I meant fitness, obviously many people have health issues that they cannot help.

> Perhaps after covid people will take their health more seriously?

I'm not hopeful of it. The problem is that it's just such good business to keep people in poor health. Consider all the products that can be sold to them:

- addictive junk food to exacerbate the cycle

- type 2 diabetes medication

- plus-size clothing

- plus-size identity media

- weight loss programs and medications

Now, I'm not saying that all of this is done intentionally. But what I am saying is that strong incentives exist to keep selling these products and keep demand for them high, unless society as a whole agrees that it's wrong to do so, (as it eventually did with tobacco) at least without warning.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#185
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Italian person (also our life expectancy is really good on average) this hits home. An anecdotal example: I now live in Switzerland and my current doctor was shocked when I ask to get some blood analysis without being sick. He believed that I lied to my insurance company and hid some pre-existing condition. In Italy, instead, it is pretty common that every couple of years you get a complete blood analysis just…

Annual blood tests are standard for all patients with my current GP in the US. He is a younger doctor, so that might be a factor. I'm a bad patient in that I don't go every year.

Yup. We get told our cholesterol is high, our triglycerides are high, our blood pressure is high, we're pre-diabetic, we ignore it and come back the next year and get prescribed more pills.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#186
post #142
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the short answer is quite simply nobody really knows . Your best bet IMO is to ignore genetics (can't change it), pick a "Blue Zone", and emulate what you can- within reason. This is something we still haven't solved, so the next best thing is to try to follow a proven playbook. You could call it cargo cult'ing, but until we crack the code it's the best we've got. Then you can sprinkle in rock-solid conventio…

Blue zones are pretty cherry picked to fit the narrative of the authors.

[deleted]

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people here wouldn't even look at you straight Quite the opposite! Random strangers will stare, and friends and colleagues will make blunt comments in a way that would send them straight to HR in the US: you'll be told to your face you're fat, asked how much you weigh, get poked in the belly, asked if you've tried sumo wrestling, etc. A random デブちゃん's experience: https://www.tofugu.com/japan/fat-in-japan/

I’ve had those experiences in China, my friends would often comment on my weight. They never meant it in a offensive way, but it’s still hurtful.

It does seem like it's offensive in america to mention overweightedness at all, which seems like it enables overweight people to ignore it. Seems unhealthy as well, both physically and mentally.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Israeli, are blood tests not a normal thing done everywhere? I did not realize that... My family doctor asks for a battery of lab tests about once a year (or whenever I get around to scheduling a check-up), including glucose and cholesterol and liver functions and so on. This has been going on since I was twenty something.

I got a funny stare from the doctor in Germany when I wanted to check my cholesterol levels. My wife OTOH got it done without an issue. So yeah maybe they don't bother with males or foreigners.

Yep we only care about hot chics and Germans. But seriously, was it the same doctor? Then it would indeed be kinda weird, but otherwise there is a wide range of types of doctors, those who love checkups and prescribing stuff and sending you to a specialist whenever you report the slightest problem, and those that just send you home again no matter what, tell you to get some rest, work less, eat healthier, and maybe come back in two weeks if it doesn't fix itself. And then everything in between.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A culture that promotes health and well-being sounds great to me. Here in the West any criticism of someone's health gets you sent to HR, or accused of hate speech (ok I'm exaggerating a little but I don't think we're far off from that). Perhaps after covid people will take their health more seriously? Edit: by health I meant fitness, obviously many people have health issues that they cannot help.

> Perhaps after covid people will take their health more seriously? I'm not hopeful of it. The problem is that it's just such good business to keep people in poor health. Consider all the products that can be sold to them: - addictive junk food to exacerbate the cycle - type 2 diabetes medication - plus-size clothing - plus-size identity media - weight loss programs and medications Now, I'm not saying that all of thi…

Possibly, although the "healthy living" industry is also pretty large - think about all the vitamins, self-help books / media, non-GM food, etc.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#190
Can't let this pass without the old classic: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/704080v1

In the United States, supercentenarian status is predicted by the absence of vital registration. The state-specific introduction of birth certificates is associated with a 69-82% fall in the number of supercentenarian records. In Italy, which has more uniform vital registration, remarkable longevity is instead predicted by low per capita incomes and a short life expectancy. Finally, the designated ‘blue zones’ of Sardinia, Okinawa, and Ikaria corresponded to regions with low incomes, low literacy, high crime rate and short life expectancy relative to their national average. As such, relative poverty and short lifespan constitute unexpected predictors of centenarian and supercentenarian status, and support a primary role of fraud and error in generating remarkable human age records.

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