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Quitting a New Job

yolken.net

181–190 of 246 posts

Re: Quitting a New Job

#181
post #139

I'll put my experiences down as a cautionary tale. I've had 3 relatively short stints in tech jobs, but none where I left responsibilities on the table, like leaving in the middle of a project, or promising some work only to bail. Notice was always given, and I made the best effort to transition by completing all work before the end date. My reasons for leaving each are a bit more serious than a lifestyle downgrade,…

> The only thing that seems to count is your tenure, so don't fuck it up. You might not even get to the leetcode step if you do.

This is flat wrong. Are you only applying to Fortune 500s or something?

Re: Quitting a New Job

#182
post #110

I quit a job before even starting. They called me and told me that they had decided to pay me a good chunk less than we had agreed upon. I was in the last days of my two weeks notice for my current job. I had no option. Except that... five minutes later, my current boss made a counter-offer. And ten minutes later it was me who called those charming people to apologize for the inconvenience. After what they had done,…

Margins for hardware tend to be thinner than software which typically means less salary, not as nice offices, and more bean counters. I imagine there are exceptions to this rule (Nvidia).

I didn't care about offices, they were nice in the other place that I worked years later. It's the lack of software engineering culture.

They followed the "flag oriented programming" paradigm. The company tanked a few months after I left anyway, so no bad feelings. Edit: I meant the other hardware company. The we-dont-honor-contracts one I guess it's still there making the world a nicer place.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curiously, in my non coding management role, I busted out Djikstra’s algorithm last year to the amazement of most of the developers, who thought the problem in front of them was insoluble. It turned out that yes, it is in the general case, but it was totally possible to brute force the results required for the constrained task at hand on a laptop in Python and store the ~60k optimal solutions in a lightning fast key/…

Interesting anecdote non-withstanding, a white board interview would have not been a good way to predict your ability to have done that. The limiting factor was not your ability to remember the algorithm from memory, which you didn’t do, but the ability to make complex decisions based on real world constraints and data. In a whiteboard situation, chances are the “correct” answer would be “it’s not possible”, since wi…

Yeah - totally agree, this was just intended an a serendipitous anecdote. In this case it was, though, a clearly constrained problem space. For only a few hundred rarely changed nodes, an O(n^4) algorithm (running O(n^2) against every possible n^2 pair of nodes) is perfectly amenable to brute force and caching the results.

Totally wouldn't work for Google Maps doing shortest path routing globally, but for an event with only a couple of hundred POIs and intersections, it's a cheat that seems almost magical to people who have some concept of the algorithmic problem, but haven't worked out the "trick".

If I were asked to whiteboard this, I would 100% be asking that constraints of the dataset up front. (I'm not too sure I'd have been smart enough to do that a couple of decades back, when I last had a "perform for us code-monkey!" type of job interview...)

Re: Quitting a New Job

#184

I once quit a job after 6 weeks. From the day I started (when I saw my boss for about 30 seconds, was not given a computer or any information about how to get started/set up), it was clear things were not going well. The team I was joining had mostly disbanded (a mix of fired, left for greener pastures, or transferred to another region). As a result, there was no institutional knowledge, just as my team was put in ch…

I quit one after two weeks once. It was a small-to-medium consulting company that talked a great game in their interviews and then turned out to be a complete clown show.

After two weeks I was panicking over things like customer Hipchat meetings in which participants were using other channels to mock the customers (not shared with the customers, of course) with porn clips.

I noped out of there after two weeks. They gave me puppydog eyes and made all sorts of promises but...nope. Just, nope.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#185

Completely different type of work, but I once quit a new job at a factory after two days. First day, I arrive early to fill out the paperwork and watch the HR job safety video. Video finishes and I wait for the HR person to return. After a few minutes, I go look for her, but can't find her so I go back to the video room. Eventually someone else (upset) comes in and tells me that I'm supposed to be working rather than…

[deleted]

Re: Quitting a New Job

#186
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't get why so many developers hate Leetcode. Because they think that the employer should recognize their greatness by just looking at their resume and having a simple conversation with them, instead of assessing them on some skill that they have to brush up on. After being on the interviewer side myself recently, I think those people just don't realize how hiring actually works. I've seen some people with impre…

So why not give a simple coding test? Talk through peoples thought processes. Giving leetcodes only reward people who have grinded leetcode. Grinding leetcode gets you better at solving leetcode and takes tons of time

> So why not give a simple coding test? Talk through peoples thought processes

What do you mean? That's pretty much what leetcode-style problems are during interviews. You get a problem with some theme, like "here is a list of airplane flights in an array composed of tuples, with the first member being origin, and the second being destination. Write code that would create full-blown routes out of those flight entries."

You ask questions, clarify constraints, come up with a few approaches, discuss with the interviewer pros and cons of each, decide to go with one, implement it while walking the interviewer through your thought process. And then you discuss limitations and edge cases, scalability concerns, how you would test it if it was a problem you were solving at an actual workplace, etc.

Leetcode-style interviewing doesn't typically refer to "we just pulled a random problem from leetcode, go ahead and solve it while I am standing over your shoulder, and we will check how correct the solution is afterwards." In fact, interviewers care way more about the thought process and your approach, as opposed to caring about your solution matching theirs. In fact, there were many cases where people ended up not solving the problem and passed the interview anyway, as well as cases where people solved the problem and ended up not passing. Because the process of arriving at the solution and the reasoning you took to get there matters way more when hiring (even if you didn't get there all the way to the correct solution), as opposed to just getting the correct answer. The fastest way to fail a leetcode-style interview is to sit down and write down the correct solution as fast as possible, without explaining your reasoning process or even anything at all.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#187
post #2

I realize that HN is very employee-centric, but "exploring new opportunities but don’t quit until something better is lined up" is rather harmful to the team you're working with. If someone's just started, they're generally a net-negative, so the individual is both drawing pay and sucking resources. This is almost 'quitting in-place'. If we expect startups and companies to act ethically (in terms of pay, benefits, op…

When I was a manager, I had a rule that all my directs had to always be looking for new opportunities. If they find something better, I wanted them to leave. It made sure of 2 things for us: 1. We knew that anyone could leave at any moment, and we always planned accordingly. 2. We knew we had to keep people happy. If someone didn't like something, we had to change if possible or that person might leave. Conversations…

Had a manager at Microsoft that made me do that. Thought it was really weird at the time, and certainly wasn't anything like a company policy, but here we are 20 years later. It's a story I tell my reports all the time and it just works so much better to be able to rely on everyone being around because they have decided they want to be.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which in my opinion is a problem from an industry perspective. Why? If a person can learn bunch of algorithms and apply them to custom problems they probably can do quite a bit with computers. And it shows that they probably can learn new stuff rapidly as well. I don't get why so many developers hate Leetcode. I love it personally, I think it's great. And also, I think people are just lazy and don't want to learn n…

Because learning a bunch of algorithms doesn’t translate well into day to day programming capability. This is exactly why those dumb whiteboard problems aren’t good for interviews; you’re not measuring what makes someone successful on a day to day basis.

I gave you only one upvote but I’d give you more if I could!

Re: Quitting a New Job

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The power move is to have an offer in hand and then tell your company that you're considering leaving for , but you'd like to give them a chance to beat your new offer by . Some companies will flat-out refuse to negotiate in this way as a matter of policy, and some will really appreciate you giving them the opportunity to bid to keep you; it really depends on the company and their comp strategy. I think as long as yo…

Do you really think you’ll be treated the same by management if you pull that?

In larger companies management, HR and compensation are all separate teams, and a decent manager will be negotiating "with" you and "against" the other two to get your salary match.

Re: Quitting a New Job

#190
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some of the highest-paid engineers, AIUI, devote their considerable expertise to optimising ad click rates. I worked on an ad product with a team of 10 or so data scientists + engineers. I'd wager most of us made between 100k-175k + some tiny bonuses here and there. The product we built was making the company $2.5 million a month . But hey we all got some cool jackets and a pat on the back. Give me a break. Money t…

It typically costs an employer double what your pay is, once including benefits, matching social security contributions, etc. So your employer had 10 people it was spending 200k-350k a month on, so 2000k-3500k in expenses, for a product that made 2500k a month.

That's less true as salaries increase. Some of the increased costs like matching social security contributions or 401k matching are proportional to salary (to the tune of ~8-25% in aggregate depending on a ton of factors), and many of the other large benefits like health care are fixed and consequently take a much lower percentage of a large salary (10% would be a large overestimate for total employer health care costs for the salaries listed).

"Double" is a much better (but still probably a bit high unless you're also factoring in HR and other similar overhead) estimate for low-paid white-collar workers. Lots of fields in vast swathes of the country start out around $30k/yr but still have full benefits. A $3k-$15k/yr healthcare benefit on top of the other variable costs can push you close to double.

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