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EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

bbc.com

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Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#181

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

avianlyric wrote: post #147
Silhouette wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU democratic structure is complex, that for sure. But it's hardly undemocratic. I don't really want to start a rehash of the entire Brexit debate we had in the UK, but the EU does have a serious democratic deficit. Ask yourself this simple question: Can a citizen who is governed by the EU meaningfully influence who is doing that governing? In particular, can a large group of citizens affect who holds power withi…

> Can a citizen who is governed by the EU meaningfully influence who is doing that governing? In particular, can a large group of citizens affect who holds power within the EU and vote out those individuals they don't want, so any individual office holder has some degree of personal accountability to the electorate? Erm yes. A large group of citizen can apply pressure to its local government to push for change in the…

The UK public has been told very little about the EU. There's very little local European news in the British media, and what does appear is often jokey and condescending or slanted in a negative.

A snowstorm in the US will get significant coverage, but an equivalent major weather event in France and Germany won't.

The reality is the British Establishment simply doesn't understand Europe as a social and political project. It has no clue what consensus building, social responsibility, and political integration are for, and simply sees the EU - at least, saw the EU - as an exploitable if rather shifty trading partner.

Now the EU is a competitor, the US has limited interest in the UK, the former commonwealth countries have been looking elsewhere, and the UK's rather minimal level of independent leverage is about to become very obvious.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#182

Post by dcolkitt »

an_opabinia wrote: post #76
avianlyric wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I sometimes wonder had Apple not been such an arse with its App Store and monopolistic rules. Would these regulations ever come up. Nah these regulations were always coming. Everyone always likes to pick on Apple and the App Store, but quite frankly in the EU (where iPhones market share is only 24% compared to 49% in the US) Apple is small fries compared to companies like Facebook which basically owns 100% of socia…

"Small fries" and 24%... Anyway you're right but it's like, how would any of this concretely improve competition? In my experience, the problem is that giant companies steal your stuff, whether it's your code or your users, and that even when you want to enforce something like that, they can afford better lawyers than you. Like nobody here is working on social networks, cellphones or web browsers. I bet you interact…

> And then a giant company sues you for IP violations and you go bankrupt

Is this an issue with the FAANG giants? My sense is initiating IP litigation is more the province of legacy tech companies like IBM and Oracle. (Who aren’t being targeted by these EU laws)

I’ve seen very little examples of Apple, Google, or Amazon initiating patent lawsuits. Especially against small players. If anything most of their lobbying and litigation seems to aim to weaken IP law. (E.g. Google v. Oracle)

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#183

Post by Silhouette »

bserge wrote: post #149
Silhouette wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU democratic structure is complex, that for sure. But it's hardly undemocratic. I don't really want to start a rehash of the entire Brexit debate we had in the UK, but the EU does have a serious democratic deficit. Ask yourself this simple question: Can a citizen who is governed by the EU meaningfully influence who is doing that governing? In particular, can a large group of citizens affect who holds power withi…

> Can a citizen who is governed by the EU meaningfully influence who is doing that governing? In particular, can a large group of citizens affect who holds power within the EU and vote out those individuals they don't want, so any individual office holder has some degree of personal accountability to the electorate? In theory, yes. But it would take a huge group of people. Which is practically impossible these days.…

I realised after I wrote my original comment that I forgot to add a rider along the lines of "without causing profound and possibly unwanted side effects", which is often the fundamental problem with having indirectly elected (aka appointed without a popular vote) people in positions of power.

And you're right, this is a very widespread problem today. That doesn't mean we shouldn't acknowledge the issue and challenge the status quo where opportunities present, of course.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#184

Post by woah »

an_opabinia wrote: post #76
avianlyric wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I sometimes wonder had Apple not been such an arse with its App Store and monopolistic rules. Would these regulations ever come up. Nah these regulations were always coming. Everyone always likes to pick on Apple and the App Store, but quite frankly in the EU (where iPhones market share is only 24% compared to 49% in the US) Apple is small fries compared to companies like Facebook which basically owns 100% of socia…

"Small fries" and 24%... Anyway you're right but it's like, how would any of this concretely improve competition? In my experience, the problem is that giant companies steal your stuff, whether it's your code or your users, and that even when you want to enforce something like that, they can afford better lawyers than you. Like nobody here is working on social networks, cellphones or web browsers. I bet you interact…

They steal "your" users???

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#185

Post by jbjbjbjb »

jelling wrote: post #35

> let users uninstall pre-installed apps on their platform and use different software Assuming it passes, I wonder what this means for Apple's Siri.

I’d imagine for something like Siri they’d argue it is too deeply embedded to be replaced and the rules would have exemptions for that. I think the rules applies more to superfluous apps on Windows and Android that you can’t remove like the Xbox app on Windows or having Facebook preinstalled on Android.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#186

Post by bigbubba »

woah wrote: post #184
an_opabinia wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Small fries" and 24%... Anyway you're right but it's like, how would any of this concretely improve competition? In my experience, the problem is that giant companies steal your stuff, whether it's your code or your users, and that even when you want to enforce something like that, they can afford better lawyers than you. Like nobody here is working on social networks, cellphones or web browsers. I bet you interact…

They steal "your" users???

See also the term 'poaching', which implies ownership of employees.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#187

Post by dariosalvi78 »

alacombe wrote: post #118
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments do however create corporations, which is an artificial structure that can only exist due to government control over the intersection between the marketplace and the legal system.

I'd be tempted to think the concept of "corporations" pre-dates "government" as we know them today, and these secular traditions were merely enshrined in Law.

you know what sort of corporations you get without governments? without schools and universities that educate their employers? or the research that has supported ALL the technologies that these companies have exploited? or build ALL the infrastructure (roads, electricity, water...)

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#188

Post by throwaway894345 »

amaccuish wrote: post #137
throwaway894345 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, movie and music ratings aren't censorship. Moreover, only broadcast television and radio are censored (perhaps because radio waves are a public platform?). I'm not going to argue that censoring broadcast is ideal or valid, but I'm certainly less sympathetic to the plight of massive media companies than I am to millions of private citizens.

> To be clear, movie and music ratings aren't censorship. And yet I consider restricting access to educative LGBT+ films under the banner of "18+" to be censorship

I was distinguishing between "rating films" with "restricting access", but yeah, the content of the films doesn't matter--it's censorship whether the content is LGBT+ or Al Qaeda beheadings. The pertinent question is whether a third party is obligated to show you that content. As it relates to social media companies, my position is that if a company is exercising the right to censor (effectively to curate content) then they must also take responsibility when they curate illegal content, such as child pornography or intellectual property--they don't get to have it both ways.

Similarly, I don't think your local theater's prohibition on minors viewing 'adult' content compares favorably to a large social media company which steers and manipulates so much communication that it can unilaterally sway national elections. The latter is an issue of national sovereignty.

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#189

Post by coddle-hark »

baxtr wrote: post #75

Ok, I will probably get downvoted for this. But I will still speak my mind: I am an EU citizen and I don’t think that’s the right approach because it’s distracting from what really happened: We missed the big Internet bus because we were so much focused on keeping things the way they were. Now we try to regulate us out. It makes me unbelievably sad. And it continues. The car was invented here but it takes an Australi…

I can’t comment on why Europe isn’t the world leader in tech... but are we really missing out on much? The head counts (=jobs) of these companies are low compared to other sectors. Most (all?) have a strong European presence. Anyone can buy their stocks and share their wealth. It’s not like we don’t have strong engineering talent, either. Is there something I’m missing?

Re: EU reveals plan to regulate Big Tech

#190

Post by maltelandwehr »

baxtr wrote: post #75

Ok, I will probably get downvoted for this. But I will still speak my mind: I am an EU citizen and I don’t think that’s the right approach because it’s distracting from what really happened: We missed the big Internet bus because we were so much focused on keeping things the way they were. Now we try to regulate us out. It makes me unbelievably sad. And it continues. The car was invented here but it takes an Australi…

China showed how to foster a local tech startup ecosystem. As long as Europe refuses to take the same route, the US and China will split the pie.
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