Who Americans spend their time with, by age • Hacker News Board

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#181

Post by munificent » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

alextheparrot wrote: post #57

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is the sort of thing most people can use mental jiu jitsu to dodge out of. Social connection is a drive most might not be able to satisfy without actual social connection.

> This allows them to be more supportive and close when they need socialization because they aren't exhausted. This part picks out an important detail, which is that if you’re capable of being alone social connection isn’t always load-bearing for your happiness and fulfillment. I don’t think this conflicts with the drive you mentioned, just that being okay without allows you to be more picky of how you are with. It i…

> if you’re capable of being alone social connection isn’t always load-bearing for your happiness and fulfillment.

I don't disagree with you, but I do think it's worth considering that maybe we are happiest when social connection is load-bearing.

A life where no one needs you and you need no one is a life with no stakes at all. When I think back on the experiences in my life that were the most meaningful, that made me feel my life was deeply worth living, it's almost always times where I did something important for someone or someone did something important for me. At the very least, it's times where a meaningful experience was shared with people I care about.

There is a trend in the world (and all over this thread) that the ultimate goal of life is invulnerabtily. To subtract everything that could possibly hurt you. I get that. I do that too. But I have learned in the past couple of years how high a cost that carries.

If you never expose your soft spots to anyone, you never experience the absolutely profound joy and connection of having someone who sees you, warts and all, and earns your trusts and loves you completely.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#182

Post by astura » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 6:16 PM UTC

burade wrote: post #130

Swizec wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mom always said ”Move far away enough that your parents can’t visit in their slippers, trust me you don’t want that kinda meddling” I moved to USA. “Damn it I didn’t mean that far” ~ mom My sister lives with her boyfriend in his mom’s house. There is indeed a ridiculous amount of meddling even though they’re technically separate households.

It's only meddling if you're way too stressed out by trying to keep up with capitalism. If you live a simple life without too much stress then it's not really meddling.

What? This makes no sense. Capitalism isn't the problem, lack of boundaries is.

My best friend lived upstairs from her parents for years. It was her own apartment but the arrangement was hell on earth. Multiple times a day every day her mom would come barging in (and I do mean barging) to insert herself into whatever was going on in my friend's apartment, make nasty comments, or borrow/take something. Her mom eventually just stopped buying her own stuff because she just would take whatever my friend had if she needed it, plus it gave her more reason to bother my friend more often, which seemed to be her favorite activity in the world. Her mom even stopped driving her own car and just took my friend's whenever she wanted to go somewhere. The constant stress of the situation was so bad for my friend, it legitimately was ruining her health.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#183

Post by lostlogin » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #132

wbl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Places can change. There's nothing stopping suburbia from becoming more walkable and friendly to the elderly other than choices we made.

The very definition of suburbia prevents it from becoming elderly and walking friendly: large lots for houses with garages and multi car wide driveways, 6+ lane road crossings, parking lots spacing everything out. I can’t imagine any elderly person with mobility issues being able to cross any road with more than a 25mph speed limit, especially the main roads that are 4 to 8 lanes wide at intersections with 40mph spee…

In NZ lockdown really changed my perspective. With very little traffic the roads became the footpath and were heavily used by kids on bikes and families walking. Birds became were more numerous and it was very quiet.

I’m not sure how you get to this without literally shutting down the country, but that aspect was nice.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#184

Post by lostlogin » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 6:21 PM UTC

knaq wrote: post #118

wbl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Places can change. There's nothing stopping suburbia from becoming more walkable and friendly to the elderly other than choices we made.

"more walkable and friendly to the elderly" are very separate things, usually in conflict. The elderly face disability like arthritis, poor body temperature control, uncertainty about lower leg position or pavement contact, bad vision, bad hearing, confusion, and numerous other troubles. No normal or reasonable amount of "more walkable" is going to work. They need family members who care. The family members need park…

This is how we got where we are now. Making things more difficult for cars seems to increase the quality of the experience for those not using cars. Making things easier for cars increases the problems cars cause.

It’s a huge subsidy that society pays to have cars around. There is a huge cost due to the space dedicated to cars, parking them, driving them and keeping them from killing people.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#185

Post by mike_h » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 6:21 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #100

yodsanklai wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a trip to Hong Kong. I was very surprised to see a lot of old folks hanging out together, in the park, or traditional restaurants. Actually, even in NYC, there were always a lot of elderlies spending time in the Deli near my home. Maybe the secret is to retire in a place where one can maintain a good social life at an advanced age.

I have seen something similar in China. Old people socializing outside a lot, playing games, chatting, exercising (in old person kind of way) and dancing.

Every evening when it's warm enough to not wear a thick coat, every park has people of all ages dancing, but mostly old people. In the cities I've been to, there are parks in every neighborhood. They have exercise equipment and places to gather and play games or do shared hobbies (kicking a shuttlecock, whip-cracking, etc). Being old in China is incredibly lucky.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#186

Post by munificent » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 6:21 PM UTC

grumple wrote: post #61

Interesting. Totally anecdotal here, but here are my thoughts: As I get older, I see less value in friendships, mostly because I realize that many of my friendships didn't serve me and added a lot of stress to my life (and distracted from time that could have been spent on career / legacy). Meanwhile, time invested in my personal life, hobbies, and career pays off in spades - spending a few months getting better at a…

> added a lot of stress to my life

A sick side effect of the US's consumer culture is that we define most of our experiences in terms of pleasure and pain, which is a shallow and unhelpful way to intepret it.

A couple of years ago, a dear friend died suddenly. I flew across the country to her memorial service. Her husband asked if anyone wanted to say anything. I'm very shy and not spontaneous, but I found myself getting up in front of a hundred people and talking about her and their marriage while tears poured down my face. I've never done anything like that before, and I honestly couldn't even really tell you what I said.

In the calculus of pleasure and pain, this was a miserable experience. Grieving for my friend and her absolutely destroyed husband. Terrified of public speaking, inexplicably ashamed to be crying in front of others, sobbing in sadness. If this experience was a blister-packed product I bought off Amazon, it would get a zero-star review.

But it is one of the most meaningful, important experiences of my life. Of course it sucked, but the fact that it sucked shows how much it was worth it.

The question is not whether your friends add stress. All friends will, even the best ones. In fact, the best ones will often add the most, as you empathize with their struggles and experience them as your own. The question is whether the stress is meaningful and worth it. Obviously, cut out toxic people who bring you down for no benefit. But avoiding all close friendships because they can hurt means losing the opportunity to have all of the deep difficult but meaningful experiences that make life worth it.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#187

Post by lambda_obrien » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 6:25 PM UTC

I'm 38, and very lonely lately (not just COVID) and seeing that "time spent alone" increases starting at age 38 really makes me depressed.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#188

Post by ch4s3 » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

burade wrote: post #130

Swizec wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mom always said ”Move far away enough that your parents can’t visit in their slippers, trust me you don’t want that kinda meddling” I moved to USA. “Damn it I didn’t mean that far” ~ mom My sister lives with her boyfriend in his mom’s house. There is indeed a ridiculous amount of meddling even though they’re technically separate households.

It's only meddling if you're way too stressed out by trying to keep up with capitalism. If you live a simple life without too much stress then it's not really meddling.

I have a childhood friend who helps his father run a family business and lives on the corner of the family farm. His wife left him about a year ago, because his mother wouldn't give them a moment alone and was constantly letting herself into their house. These folks had a fairly traditional life and multi-generational family structure, but his mother suffocated their marriage. Had nothing to do with their engagement with markets.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#189

Post by lhorie » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 6:27 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #146

burade wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only meddling if you're way too stressed out by trying to keep up with capitalism. If you live a simple life without too much stress then it's not really meddling.

No it’s definitely meddling when you’re 30+ and your mom waltzes into your kitchen and says “Mmmmm are you sure that knife goes in that drawer? And when’s the last time you did the dishes anyway look at this mess”

And it's a surprisingly common thing. Some women in my family have had huge fights with their moms because of stuff like this.

Re: Who Americans spend their time with, by age

#190

Post by dfxm12 » Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

jvanderbot wrote: post #134

dcolkitt wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Western nuclear family is a very unnatural social arrangement. Anthropologists have found that in most hunter-gatherers, the average infant is held at one point or another by 30+ people in a typical day. The nuclear family has the twin downsides of putting tons of stress on parents of young kids, who shoulder the entire childcare burden, and deprives a lot of grandparents, aunts, cousins, and others of meaningful…

A more "natural" arrangement occurs if we all don't run to large cities chasing glory and gold (which I have done, full disclosure, much to my child-caring woes). There is nothing wrong with nuclear families if you add in something like "nuclear communities". In many small towns or suburban cities, 3 generations live nearby, with all the aunts and uncles. Help with care is always next door, and children are raised wi…

I live in a top 10 US city (based on population), and it seems to be as you describe - generations of family living nearby, grandparents, etc. always around to help with the kids. Weekly (at least) family meals, parties where the whole neighborhood is invited, etc. I grew up knowing most of my friends' cousins and grandparents because they were just always around. Even today, I know my neighbors' kids and nephews because they live close by, too.