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Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

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Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#181

Post by rowanG077 »

nrp wrote: post #159
rowanG077 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately not. There are no 13 inch x86 devices on the market that don't throttle afaik.

Dynamic Voltage and Frequency Scaling (DVFS) is a desirable feature. You're not getting a 60W CPU in a 13" form factor, but you can get a 28W CPU that will run at 28W indefinitely while also being able to temporarily boost to 60W when needed and thermally able to.

It's fine if I could get an ultra book that could sustain non boost performance. But even that is too much to ask for intel. I have't tested recently released AMD cpus to claim AMD also falls short.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#182

Post by CharlesW »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #166
squarefoot wrote: post #94

No, I wouldn't, not even if I could print billions in a snap. I'd rather help funding the port to a 10 times slower but open platform, rather to a technically superior but proprietary close one whose owner would make it incompatible two seconds after they would smell competition from Linux in any of their core business fields. No thanks, I'll send my small quid to whomever appears to be really in favor of openness, n…

Lol they highlighted running Linux in the first announcement of the ISA switch , they see no threat in Linux at all. Their business model would need to change dramatically for that to happen. They’re a hardware company that makes the hardware more attractive with software, service and device integration. Their software restrictions are part of the value proposition, but anyone fully ejecting from that would be on the…

> Linux becoming attractive on their hardware would almost certainly be unsupported, but I seriously doubt it would be undermined.

This. Apple doesn't even care about Hackintoshes, which are (theoretically) orders of magnitude more threatening to Apple's business model since they (theoretically) cannibalize Mac sales.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#183

Post by mch82 »

ddingus wrote: post #109
squarefoot wrote: post #94

No, I wouldn't, not even if I could print billions in a snap. I'd rather help funding the port to a 10 times slower but open platform, rather to a technically superior but proprietary close one whose owner would make it incompatible two seconds after they would smell competition from Linux in any of their core business fields. No thanks, I'll send my small quid to whomever appears to be really in favor of openness, n…

As spiffy as Apple mobile devices are, I never found the locked down environment worth it. Nice hardware, too bad about the OS/App model... This new hardware is awesome! I could care less overall though. Frankly, open computing can be done fast enough to not be a worry. I will stick with all that and see where this new path leads. And my mind is open. Who knows? Maybe it all ends up in a good place. I am quite happy…

I don’t understand why people complain instead of taking FOSS they like, packaging it as an app, distributing it on the App Store & publishing the source. Does Apple prohibit that?

I remember the days of very little Apple compatible software on the shelf at retailers, and no games. I was probably one of the first students to use a MacBook with OSX for CSCI 101 because many classes required Windows. That was lack of freedom. The App Store has more software than any other distribution channel at any point in my life.

Edit: I also love freedom from malware, which I understand is probably a temporary situation. But it’s been a good run so far.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#184

Post by bigbubba »

rowanG077 wrote: post #177
slang800 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not willing to look outside of the exact form factor and specs that Apple happens to support, then open devices aren't a priority for you. I use a 1 inch thick Thinkpad that's almost a decade old because it runs Libreboot. There is an alternative, but you need to be in the mindset where freedom is more important than hardware.

Exactly you need to compromise significantly on speed and form factor. It's simply not practical for me to do that.

No computers available in the years preceding the present were practical for you? I doubt that.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#185

Post by internet2000 »

nightski wrote: post #172
freehunter wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>owner would make it incompatible two seconds after they would smell competition We're talking about Apple, right? The company that made an entire software platform called Bootcamp, specifically to enable a competitor's OS to run on their hardware? A company who custom-developed drivers specifically to be compatible with a competitor's OS on their own hardware? You're talking about that Apple? The one who said they w…

Bootcamp is dead on M1. In addition they have taken steps towards further locking down which apps can run on OSX. So he's probably talking about that Apple.

Bootcamp isn't available as Microsoft doesn't have a version of Windows compatible with the new platform. The parent comment even says that. And Gatekeeper has been around for 8+ years, always with ways to run whatever you want, but I'm sure the "locking down" is coming any day now.

It's just business: Apple won't intentionally remove features that makes their hardware more attractive. It's where they make most of their money.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#187

Post by gaul »

I maintain mbpfan and have contributed to a few other Linux on Mac tools.

Linux on Mac is not worth the effort. I ran Ubuntu on a 2011 MacBook Air and now run Fedora on a 2014 MacBook Air. There were several papercuts even with these relatively open models where it took a while to get suspend, trackpad, fan, webcam, wifi, etc. working properly. You will need to use binary drivers for the latter two features and some strange EFI bootloader. It seems that newer MacBook compatibility is worse:

https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux

I use Debian on ThinkPad at work and plan to buy this or a Dell XPS for my next laptop.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#188

Post by voodootrucker »

squarefoot wrote: post #94

No, I wouldn't, not even if I could print billions in a snap. I'd rather help funding the port to a 10 times slower but open platform, rather to a technically superior but proprietary close one whose owner would make it incompatible two seconds after they would smell competition from Linux in any of their core business fields. No thanks, I'll send my small quid to whomever appears to be really in favor of openness, n…

> I'll send my small quid to whomever appears to be really in favor of openness

That would be these guys then: https://www.sifive.com/boards/hifive-unmatched

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#189

Post by minot »

CharlesW wrote: post #182
eyelidlessness wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol they highlighted running Linux in the first announcement of the ISA switch , they see no threat in Linux at all. Their business model would need to change dramatically for that to happen. They’re a hardware company that makes the hardware more attractive with software, service and device integration. Their software restrictions are part of the value proposition, but anyone fully ejecting from that would be on the…

> Linux becoming attractive on their hardware would almost certainly be unsupported, but I seriously doubt it would be undermined. This. Apple doesn't even care about Hackintoshes, which are (theoretically) orders of magnitude more threatening to Apple's business model since they (theoretically) cannibalize Mac sales.

The main reason to run hackintosh as far as I know is to write software for macOS or iOS. Apple won’t encourage corporations to build hackintoshes but as long as it isn’t too easy to install macOS anywhere I don’t see how — on net — it hurts apple.

Re: Would you be willing to fund a Linux port to Apple Silicon?

#190

Post by scoopertrooper »

ddingus wrote: post #109
squarefoot wrote: post #94

No, I wouldn't, not even if I could print billions in a snap. I'd rather help funding the port to a 10 times slower but open platform, rather to a technically superior but proprietary close one whose owner would make it incompatible two seconds after they would smell competition from Linux in any of their core business fields. No thanks, I'll send my small quid to whomever appears to be really in favor of openness, n…

As spiffy as Apple mobile devices are, I never found the locked down environment worth it. Nice hardware, too bad about the OS/App model... This new hardware is awesome! I could care less overall though. Frankly, open computing can be done fast enough to not be a worry. I will stick with all that and see where this new path leads. And my mind is open. Who knows? Maybe it all ends up in a good place. I am quite happy…

The Mac M1 platform is about as open as any other laptop platform. Your points are quite valid for the i-class devices, but there is nothing preventing anyone from installing linux on an M1 Mac once driver support arrives.
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