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Growl in Retirement

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Re: Growl in Retirement

#181

Post by dochtman »

mortenjorck wrote: post #29
liquidise wrote: post #6

> Without Growl I do not know that we would have any sort of decent notification system in OS X They are right to say this, as the current Notifications system in OS X is ripped nearly pixel-for-pixel from Growl's implementation a decade ago. Like Spaces, Quicksilver, Cover Flow and others, Growl paved the way for a lot of the usability enhancements OS X gobbled up in recent years. Apple folks: take note. These are r…

There’s one issue, which is that of “Sherlocking” a third-party solution with a first-party implementation. Then there’s another, which is having an open enough system to support such innovations in the first place. Something like Growl, or f.lux (mentioned down-thread) could never have come about if macOS had been as restrictive as iOS. I have little doubt that we’ve missed at least a few such innovations over past…

It's interesting to think about the fact that, now that Macs are starting to be differentiated more by hardware (again, due to Apple Silicon) than software, Apple might actually allow more tweaking/low-level access to do interesting stuff.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#182

Post by kergonath »

ChrisGrowl wrote: post #106
thewebcount wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but Apple already had a similar feature in MacOS 8 and 9 that Growl was reproducing in OS X. It seems like Apple just hadn't gotten around to putting it in OS X yet because other things were more important. Then eventually they had time and added it.

I never used macOS until OS X and most definitely did not copy it. Nothing about Growl was a copy of that. Growl was inspired from being project manager on Adium and worked with the people making colloquy. The devs on colloquy were working on notifications and so we’re we and I thought it was smarter to make it a separate tool.

It just illustrates how natural the concept is. I don’t mean that in a bad way; it’s such an elegant solution and I would not be surprised to see other implementations before MacOS 9.

Anyway, Growl did much more than that, and I don’t think there is any doubt Apple’s current implementation owes a lot to your design.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#183

Post by noir_lord »

dylan604 wrote: post #53
perardi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people get tweak-y with their systems as much any more? I used to get extremely into customizing Mac OS (as in, Classic Mac OS), and early versions of OS X and iOS during the jailbreak salad days. Now, not so much. I tend to run closer to stock, and not deal with the system constantly changing and deprecating my tweaks. Is that because I am old, or is it less common now? (Not a rhetorical question, I really don’t…

It's similar to people building their own computer rigs. I built my own computers when I was younger and broke. It was cheaper to buy the parts and do the build yourself than it was to buy an off the shelf solution. It's also a great way to learn about the computer. As I got older, I would still lean toward building computers. However, today, I have way more responsibilities to be building the hardware, and my time i…

I still build my own PC's even though on a similar cost/benefit basis it would make sense not to perhaps.

Thing is I build PC's for both gaming and software development and frankly for that goal the delta between build it yourself and someone else building just on price is pretty large but there is also the fact that if I build it myself I know exactly which parts are in there.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#184

Post by GekkePrutser »

ben_w wrote: post #164
josteink wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This has always been the domain of the carriers, not Apple. Maybe in the US. In Europe carriers never had any say about what functionality a mobile device offered. All they provided was a SIM-card for that device.

> In Europe carriers never had any say about what functionality a mobile device offered. Not so, unfortunately. I tried putting a phone SIM into an iPad, and soon got a message from the mobile company saying the SIM card wasn’t intended for this use and would be disabled until it went back into a phone. (This was in the UK a few years ago with a Three PAYG SIM).

Three is a special kind of nasty anyway.

They used to proxy all traffic and the only way to get out of their stupid slow proxy was to go to the shop with ID to get on an "18+" list.

They said it was because of some UK law but I was in Ireland. So not applicable. And other UK based providers like Vodafone didn't have this stupidity.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#185

Post by vladvasiliu »

usr1106 wrote: post #176
vladvasiliu wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. They still separate on-device use from modem use. At least Bouygues Telecom in France does. See my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25243710

hors modem, you are right. So France is different. I'm 100% sure that has never existed in Finland (well, the most common packages are unlimited anyway) and 90% sure it's not common in Germany either (they use throttling after you reach the limit) So technically, how do they differentiate the traffic?

Most of the time, tethering is allowed in the base package. What happens afterwards depends. They can either cut you off or throttle. The only experience I have with this is Orange, and they throttle to the point where you basically have no connection (SSH is unusable).

Not sure though how they differentiate the traffic. There are "access points" set up which I presume are used for either connection. In my case they are the same but I seem to remember on an older phone they used to be different. It was also a different provider. I'm also not sure how they would detect that they're changed.

Screenshot of my setup: https://imgur.com/a/xH88Itp

Re: Growl in Retirement

#186

Post by usr1106 »

bonzini wrote: post #166
usr1106 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprising from a European perspective. I have used tethering since before phones had a HTTP/HTML browser (~ 2001, remember WAP?). The question has always been do you have packet data or not, what is your bandwidth and volume. Nothing else is the operator's business.

Tethering and hotspot traffic is still marked with a different APN type ("dun").

Does APN type go out over the network?

I thought that's an Android internal thing to decide which of several APNs to use.

Also the first 2 references that Google returns say dun is obsolete and not in use with today's devices. I believe that belongs to the ATD *99# era

(Havent't worked in the field for 10+ years, could be wrong.)

Re: Growl in Retirement

#187

Post by lexicality »

tabob wrote: post #175
bzb6 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same on Windows. I find desktop notifications to be extremely annoying. On Windows applications can highlight themselves on the taskbar; that is more than enough to call my attention.

I earnestly believe that OS developers and app developers who implement pop-ups or notifications or dialogue boxes would mostly fail the Sociopath test if they were made to take it before being allowed to commit code. This sort of attention-theft feels very malicious to me.

That is a very weird way to think.

Most people find notifications very useful - enough people in fact that Growl being a third party app you have to install in order to get notifications was extremely popular and lasted for 17 years.

Some applications do seem to think they are more valuable to you than they actually are, but that's usually going to be product managers with an inflated sense of their own importance rather than trying to attack you.

You say you have ADHD. I also have ADHD and I can tell you that NTs generally aren't malicious or sociopaths or intentionally trying to destroy our focus - they're just ignorant and building for what they know in the same way sighted developers tend to produce websites blind users can't access.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#188

Post by bonzini »

usr1106 wrote: post #186
bonzini wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tethering and hotspot traffic is still marked with a different APN type ("dun").

Does APN type go out over the network? I thought that's an Android internal thing to decide which of several APNs to use. Also the first 2 references that Google returns say dun is obsolete and not in use with today's devices. I believe that belongs to the ATD *99# era (Havent't worked in the field for 10+ years, could be wrong.)

No it doesn't go out, but the APN itself does go out on the network and can be used to apply different billing to tethered vs mobile browser data usage. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25244052 for more info.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#189

Post by coolyd »

geerlingguy wrote: post #90
darkwizard42 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because no one (mainstream) uses Linux. Developers make these projects and still want lots of users and people to find use in the products. Developing for Linux leaves you with a smaller range of users than Windows and Mac.

Smaller group and often less willing to put out cash for it (besides the few who would be willing to pay substantially more to get great applications on Linux).

This was the belief for a while, but it seems that isn't totally true.

https://www.compoundtheory.com/some-arguments-against-linux-...

https://blog.hiri.com/a-year-on-our-experience-launching-a-p...

"Pricing wise, we haven’t noticed anything that distinguishes Linux users from everyone else. They are no more cost conscious than Mac / Windows users. They are definitely willing to pay for software."

As an on-again/off-again linux user, I have paid for software or donated to many projects and it seems others are willing to do the same, however it is still a much much smaller group.

Re: Growl in Retirement

#190

Post by victorgama »

jchook wrote: post #10

Reminds me of the story of a guy who gets flown out to meet with Microsoft about an acquisition for his extremely useful Windows program, but they never follow up. Instead, they just rip-off his idea verbatim and integrate it into the OS.

Just linking to the original story of appget vs winget: https://keivan.io/the-day-appget-died/
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