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Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

sciencemag.org

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Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#181

Post by Aeolun »

ardy42 wrote: post #70
floatrock wrote: post #64

The thing was iconic... even if not everyone watching/playing Goldeneye knew it was a real radio telescope, it was nevertheless one of those science megaprojects that featured prominently in the popular zeitgeist and got more than one young kid excited about what's out there in the stars. But infrastructure ages, and 60 years isn't a bad run. What comes next? Clearly there's going to be a capabilities gap for a while…

> But infrastructure ages, and 60 years isn't a bad run. What comes next? Clearly there's going to be a capabilities gap for a while, but now that it's 60 years after its original design, what kind of design is going to replace it? Do we even need giant monolith dishes anymore? China already built one: https://phys.org/news/2016-07-china-world-largest-radio-tele... . Given that it's nonmilitary US government infrastr…

It seems like we should be able to build these things in space.

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#182

Post by chordalkeyboard »

1MoreThing wrote: post #162
xyzzyz wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all, why spend money on a telescope when the government can cut the budget to lower taxes a little bit more? The NSF budget had been steadily growing in real terms, and is now over 3 times larger than in early 80s (8 times in nominal terms). If Arecibo has not been getting enough money to maintain it, and if there is no plan for new telescope in its budget, it’s not because of “budget cuts”, but rather becaus…

Is it productivity, or is the work to mine new "knowledge coins" just harder now that we've done some of the easier work?

That is an excellent question that also strikes to the heart of how we measure "productivity."

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#183

Post by chordalkeyboard »

dheera wrote: post #166
floatrock wrote: post #64

The thing was iconic... even if not everyone watching/playing Goldeneye knew it was a real radio telescope, it was nevertheless one of those science megaprojects that featured prominently in the popular zeitgeist and got more than one young kid excited about what's out there in the stars. But infrastructure ages, and 60 years isn't a bad run. What comes next? Clearly there's going to be a capabilities gap for a while…

Random stupid questions from someone who is not a civil engineer: (a) Why not replace the cables? (b) What would they do if the cables on the Golden Gate bridge also corroded like this?

judging by other comments, the observatory is obsolete. I believe they regularly paint the cables on the GG bridge in order to protect from corrosion.

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#184

Post by onecommentman »

Retric wrote: post #99
aylmao wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But infrastructure ages, and 60 years isn't a bad run. Infrastructure can also be maintained and last longer than this, which is why I'm personally sad. Had Arecibo always had the ~60 year timeline, it would've been a bittersweet retirement, like Voyager. In this case I just feel like it's gone before it should. Arecibo has been receiving reduced funding since the early 2000s [1]. The end of an era, although thankf…

It really depends on the structure. Giant steel objects are much harder to keep intact, to the point where non iconic objects are easier to replace once than maintain for 100+ years.

I think the skyscrapers in NYC would beg to differ. But there is regular maintenance on those. Which is why this sounds like more like a failure in due diligence than the natural course of affairs.

But if it is obsolete, then that is another matter.

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#185

Post by Darmody »

simonh wrote: post #68
Darmody wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course it costs more, just as that telescope costs way more than the one I have at home.

Not in your yard more and on the moon more are both more, so therefore the same. Got it.

You missed my point.

I know is way more expensive but that's how every thing else is. Every next step is dangerous and expensive but it's they only way to go forward.

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#187

Post by frob »

Oh Arecibo, how I will miss thee. I had the luck to tour the observatory in the early teens with a physics conference. Someone pulled a few strings and we got the technical tour. It was amazing and full of facts, but two things still stick with me.

First, Aricebo as a space observatory was a serendipitous accident. It was originally designed just to be an atmospheric observatory. The original idea and calculations for the dish were done in a masters thesis (maybe doctoral) and, it being the late 50s and early 60s, almost immediatly got funding just like anything else at the time with physics or science attached to it. Fast forward a few years. They build the thing and realize the student made a factor-of-10 error in his calculations, but in the right direction. Arecibo was 10x LARGER than it needed to be to do the atmospheric experiments it was designed for. Turns out, they could bounce radio waves off the moon and get a response. They could hit Mercury and hear something. They eventually could even hit Jupiter. (Side fun fact: the range was limited not by the sensitivity of the receiver, but by how far the earth rotated during the flight time of the radio waves. Anything past Jupiter and Arecibo rotated out of the receiving window before the radio burst could return.)

Second, Arecibo isn't just an active radio telescope as mentioned before; it's an active microwave experiment. To study the dynamics of atmospheric plasma, Arecibo could focus microwave transmissions at different altitudes, exciting small patches of air into a plasma. It would then immediately listen to study the cooling and reionization properties of the atmosphere.

Arecibo had a strong run, providing scientific insights for over 50 years. RIP, Arecibo. You maybe have been nestled in mountains down here on Earth, but you were still a Great Observatory to me.

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#188

Post by oillio »

goatinaboat wrote: post #180
Retric wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on the structure. Giant steel objects are much harder to keep intact, to the point where non iconic objects are easier to replace once than maintain for 100+ years.

Giant steel objects are much harder to keep intact, to the point where non iconic objects are easier to replace once than maintain for 100+ years. What about the Eiffel Tower? Or Blackpool Tower. That proves it can be done.

Those are iconic. The difference between being possible and being cost effective.

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#189

Post by Aeolun »

VerDeTerre wrote: post #113
xianhn wrote: post #58

Sad day. I worked in radio astronomy and stayed on site for a week a few years back. Amazing telescope, the scale of it has to be seen to be believed. They have had serious funding issues for some time now, so now that it needs repair, I figured they might retire it. Unfortunate for all the staff that work there, it employed quite a few people. RIP Arecibo.

I would not have guessed the scale. The article says the instrument platform weighs 900 tons, which is amazing to imagine. At first, I wondered if they could use a helicopter to bring it down safely, but it's like two or three 747s on a tight rope.

The platform itself looks bigger than the instruments, so maybe it’s mostly platform?

Re: Arecibo telescope, on the brink of collapse, will be dismantled

#190

Post by stoppatriarchy »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #31
dfsegoat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would seem unlikely in PR given the state of infrastructure there. The hurricane destroyed a lot of the already failing power and port infrastructure, for instance. https://www.rollcall.com/2019/11/12/report-puerto-ricos-infr...

Back in the 1950s the US Government built a lot of space infrastructure in the South (Stennis, Redstone &c) to develop the backwards corners of the nation. There's no political will for that any longer, it seems.

Can we stop referring to portions of Usonia populated primarily by POC as "backward", please and thank you? Let's not further marginalize those who have already been opressed for so long, mkay?
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