A case for using punctuation in Slack • Hacker News Board

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#181

Post by djur » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

aflag wrote: post #6

saagarjha wrote: post #2

I feel like (so, of course, this is how I use instant messaging) periods at the end of a message suggest the logical conclusion of a thought, and are far too formal to use with every message. Email, sure, but not chat. (I do use question marks and capitalize in general, but periods in particular seem strange to me.)

I frequently hit return rather than typing a period. However, I feel that's not really good practice, as I often see myself sending a lot of small messages which could probably be better summarised with a couple well thought out sentences.

It really depends on the context. If people tend to fire off every sentence into the channel as they think, the person who writes a paragraph is going to come off strangely. The reverse is also true.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#182

Post by scubbo » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

elwell wrote: post #169

tashoecraft wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think with just the shear amount of messaging that is occurring in todays age combined with the lines being blurred between work and home makes communication rapidly evolve. What one things is clear communication with no ambiguity, another might disagree. An example is responding back to a message with "Ok.". I see many over, say, 50 do this much more often, but to many under, say 30, this is taken as very passive…

> An example is responding back to a message with "Ok.". I see many over, say, 50 do this much more often, but to many under, say 30, this is taken as very passive aggressive. Definitely have experienced this. > shear sheer > What one things is clear communication with no ambiguity, another might disagree. thinks > todays today's > age combined with the lines being blurred between work and home makes age, combined wi…

> passive-aggressive

Well, you weren't lying...

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#183

Post by ghaff » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

mvp wrote: post #172

ghaff wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I have almost all mobile device notifications turned off. Though I realize some people are in groups that have more of an expectation of immediate response.

Exactly.. I was wondering the same. What notifications are these people talking about. First thing I do on my phone is to turn off all notifications.

I don't turn all off. But it's a pretty high bar and those I have notification on for are pretty low volume that I typically do want to respond to or be aware of in a timely manner.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#184

Post by scubbo » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 11:05 PM UTC

greggyb wrote: post #143

hombre_fatal wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I ultimately come to this conclusion. A period is a tiny piece of a message. If something so small makes your message seem in some way negative, then your communication is already on the margin. You should look at other areas of your communication to improve. You're taking it all the way to an extreme where kids these days must be getting upset over periods in messages and wincing with tender emotions (which was a…

If a one-word response would seem more negative or less enthusiastic with a period, then I posit it was not carrying a positive or enthusiastic message in the first place. If I want someone to interpret a one-word answer as enthusiastic, I'll put a bloody exclamation point on it. And you get back to the real core of my point (though I could probably have been clearer). > Sounds pretty reasonable to me for SMS/WhatsAp…

Nice.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#185

Post by phist_mcgee » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

iamdbtoo wrote: post #164

tobr wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can apply the same reasoning to any of the myriad ways we pick up social, emotional clues from people around us. Facial expressions, body language, brevity, melody, choice of words, clothing, typography, use of emojis, and so on. All of these things are nuanced, vibrant, easily misjudged hints of what another person is feeling, how they see you, or how much they care. You can’t really choose freely how to interpr…

How you intepret those is absolutely a choice. If you do not have enough information to know 100% what the intention of the other person is, then wherever you land is a decision. If it's that the person is angry, that's your choice the same if you believe the person is not angry.

You sound like you have never worked in the business world before. Half of business is picking up on tone, ambiguous phrasing, and empty promises with smiles. Reading between the lines is a core part of interpreting meaning, and it why many people with autism spectrum disorders really struggle with things like sales, or people management (at least from the customer or employee's side). Nuance is everything here.

If my boss chucks an ellipsis at the end of the message, does that mean he wants me to....

Answer an implied question?

Wait for him to keep writing more information?

That he wants me to justify what he has just said?

It is not a choice as you argue, to interpret meaning behind ambiguous communication, and have effective communication. I cannot ignore implied tone, because I 'don't have 100% certainty of their intention'

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#186

Post by FridgeSeal » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

hobofan wrote: post #121

38932ur98u wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually something I've been wondering, as somebody learning German right now: are there equivalents to this kind of slang in online German? Would you _ever_ leave a noun, for example, uncapitalized, for a more casual feel?

I wouldn't, and among my friends it's rather rare, but yeah there are people that don't capitalize when texting casually (or in any form of written text like my mom, which drives me insane).

As an English-speaker, communicating with people who neglect capitalisation in messages frustrates me immensely, especially proper nouns.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#187

Post by phist_mcgee » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

greggyb wrote: post #143

hombre_fatal wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I ultimately come to this conclusion. A period is a tiny piece of a message. If something so small makes your message seem in some way negative, then your communication is already on the margin. You should look at other areas of your communication to improve. You're taking it all the way to an extreme where kids these days must be getting upset over periods in messages and wincing with tender emotions (which was a…

If a one-word response would seem more negative or less enthusiastic with a period, then I posit it was not carrying a positive or enthusiastic message in the first place. If I want someone to interpret a one-word answer as enthusiastic, I'll put a bloody exclamation point on it. And you get back to the real core of my point (though I could probably have been clearer). > Sounds pretty reasonable to me for SMS/WhatsAp…

Cool bro, you know how to use big words, but you don't seem to know when to use them. That doesn't make you smarter than most, it makes your writing more obtuse.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#188

Post by jhayward » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

adjkant wrote: post #41

The message beyond the HN title actually has potential. However, the author focuses in some odd places for me. As far as punctuation, ending periods actually have negative emotion in text vernacular now for younger audiences and should almost never be used in 1-1 messaging. Exclamation points, commas, and question marks, great! For abbreviations, it's simply know your audience. You should use them when everyone in th…

I am astounded that anyone thinks that adding emojis can solve anything related to clarity of communication. We might as well be interpreting Egyptian cartoushes, for the lack of clarity involved.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#189

Post by JoshuaDavid » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #17

Clarity in communication is undervalued. Things like punctuation are a great start, but we can go even further. Avoiding acronyms where possible is often good for this, particularly if you can build a culture where asking people to expand acronyms happens. A tough side-effect of this I've seen though is the possibility of excluding some non-native English speakers, both in terms of making it harder for them to consum…

One convention I've found useful is to define any acronym, or even any word or phrase that's used in a nonstandard way, the first time it's used in a conversation. Additionally, acronyms frequently pick up additional meanings than those you get from the individual words that comprise them, so you probably should not just expand the acronym the first time you use it. Consider the acronym "DDL", as in "Data Definition Language". If you're not familiar with the term, you will be equally lost whether someone says "The prod DB is down because the third DDL migration of the release hung" or "The production database is down because the third Data Definition Language migration of the release hung". If you instead say "The prod DB is down because the third DDL migration (DDL migrations = schema changes like adding or removing columns or tables)", everyone who's worked with a database before knows what happened even if they don't necesssarily know exactly what DDL stands for.

Acronyms are nice when you've got a long, frequently used phrase, as long as everyone in the conversation knows what they mean. I think banning acronyms entirely would be eliminating all of the useful value from the practice of using acronyms, while not necessarily addressing the largest problem that the use of acronyms causes.

Re: A case for using punctuation in Slack

#190

Post by finolex1 » Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 11:15 PM UTC

Jedd wrote: post #148

tashoecraft wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're writing small, short sentences, there is something off putting about periods. It's just part of the how text based communication has become. Emojis are good because words can be interpreted with a tone that was unintended, and can lead to all sorts of communication problems. It's small and simple, but an appropriate emoji helps convey our emotions in a way that is more difficult to in short, text based me…

> When you're writing small, short sentences, there is something off putting about periods. Well, that may be the case for some people, but I am not convinced it's the general case. Also, how do you write (delineate, identify, etc) small, short sentences without periods? I'm assuming people in a hurry - that don't have time for punctuation - do have time for tautological constructs? (small, short) ; )

In my experience this is pretty much a universal norm for all Americans below 30. Putting a period at the end of a sentence may come across as curt or rude.

Note: Rules are different for multi-sentence messages and single sentence messages. For messages with multiple sentences, its fine to insert periods between all sentences, but skip the last one. The above only applies to short messages with a single sentence.