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YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

reuters.com

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Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#181
BigTech has created something that's never existed before. Perhaps the best phrase is it is an "Epistemological Monopoly"

If you run a newspaper, you publish lots of letters from nuts and cranks. You run stories on some of the things they do. People love hearing about other colorful people in their community (as long as they're peaceful, of course) When you run news stories, the general idea is that you have an editorial staff which is either balanced politically and temperamentally or is able to fake being so, the goal being to cut off and prevent any appearance of the publication accidentally slanting news when there's a much better and generally-accepted way of telling it. If it's passionate, stick that shit in the editorial section where it belongs.

But there's no longer that distinction between news, quirky folks, and slice-of-life stories. In fact, the more that it's all muddled up, the more eyeballs you can reach. It's even become it's own anti-joke. I doubt many of the flat-earthers are actually serious, but it's a way to be wacky that the internet overlords overlook.

And there lies the rub. If you control the gateway to information for billions of people, you effectively control where they go online. And since you control where they go online, you control what they know. These things logically follow one another. If they didn't, so many billions of dollars wouldn't be invested in internet advertising every week. We control what you know and when you know it. Driving through town? Hey, did you know there's a great pizza restaurant a block away? Computers are our brain, and internet companies are making huge bank on knowing stuff for us and telling us what would be fun to do.

So if they don't like an idea, think it's dangerous, not only does it leave their platform, it ceases to exist for most people. In the physical world it may exist, but in the minds of the world it does not.

That is immensely fucked up. The only thing worse would be subtle algorithms that do the same thing but are black boxes and difficult to prove exist or how they work. At least in this instance we're all having an honest conversation about it.

I could make a long, long list of information everybody knew was dangerous that we would have happily shut down if we could: germ theory, heliocentric solar system, bacteria causing ulcers, and so on. I could make an equally-long list of information everybody knew was true and good for folks that we later abandoned: phrenology, Social Darwinism, Eugenics, homosexuality being deviance, etc. Hell, just look at how many times everybody that's serious have flipped around on issues during the pandemic. That's how it's supposed to work. At one point, we had ER physicians secretly going behind the backs of their hospitals to share information. This was both breaking their contracts and could have caused great harm to themselves, their patients, and the institutions they worked for.

Now these problems are solved. Ideas contrary to leading opinions just cease to exist, and ideas supported by leading opinion, mixed with a lot of heavy-handed emotion and hyperbole, get stuck at the top of your feed.

We don't fight you over wrongthink anymore. We don't stick you in the editorial section or write articles praising you for your creativity even if most of us disagree. You and your ideas just cease to exist as meaningful concepts; no mentioning, no chatting, no links, sometimes even no association with people who feel that way. We have certainly done a great job of fixing that pesky "How do we keep the most people using our service" problem. Congrats guys.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#182
post #87

> YouTube doesn't allow content that spreads medical misinformation that contradicts local health authorities’ or the World Health Organization’s (WHO) medical information about COVID-19 So all videos must refer to an IFR of > 3%?

WHO has now accepted https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf for publication, which concludes: "Most locations probably have an infection fatality rate less than 0.20% and with appropriate, precise non-pharmacological measures that selectively try to protect high-risk vulnerable populations and settings, the infection fatality rate may be brought even lower. "

That's the point though: if a video had, in the intervening time, asserted this more accurate IFR, it'd be against the letter-of-the-law per these rules.

The WHO hasn't been the infallible source of truth that Google is trying to portray - nobody has.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#183
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. My issue is that why did US health officials say masks were not effective against respiratory infections, when health officials from Asian countries had deemed them effective. Why didn't we have the science? Respiratory infections aren't new. I remember debating people early in the outbreak about the use of masks and they were pointing out that there was little scientific evidence on the use of masks, e…

My issue is that why did US health officials say masks were not effective against respiratory infections, when health officials from Asian countries had deemed them effective. Because Asian countries were basing their advice on science and the US was basing the advice on what would poll well with Republican voters who believe individual freedom is more important than community welfare. The US absolutely did have acce…

Masks can't crush a pandemic. See daily cases in Japan.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/japan/

The science you are referring to is very weak. The only randomized trial on cloth masks was completed in 2015.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#184
post #158
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. My issue is that why did US health officials say masks were not effective against respiratory infections, when health officials from Asian countries had deemed them effective. Why didn't we have the science? Respiratory infections aren't new. I remember debating people early in the outbreak about the use of masks and they were pointing out that there was little scientific evidence on the use of masks, e…

They lied because they didn't want medical professionals to run out of masks

Then they should realize that noble lies will erode trust in institutions (rightly so).

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More freedom of speech is the answer to misinformation because then it can be challenged. Censorship allows convenient mistruths to spread unchallenged.

There's literally no reason to believe that this is correct and anything else other than dogma. There's quite a lot of psychological evidence suggesting that first impressions stick stronger than corrections (which everyone knows who has ever accidentally believed something just because they heard it quickly), that only people who are predisposed to corrections actually believe them, and that in others corrections ev…

> There's literally no reason to believe that this is correct and anything else other than dogma.

Christianity, for example, was supported by blasphemy laws. Once those laws were undermined or removed its doctrines and practices were able to be challenged, and now we see greater numbers of non-believers in formerly Christian countries as a result.

There's certainly dogma in that example but not the sort you were positing.

As I've pointed out elsewhere, you've time limited the results for no apparent reason. That a lie can get halfway round the world before truth has a chance to get its trousers on does not obviate the power of truth and the power to speak truth.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#186
Now think about all the conspiracy theories that actually turned out to be truth. MK ULTRA, Dark Alliance, Tuskegee Syphilis Study, COINTELPRO, PRISM, you name it. Would these be banned ("fact checked") from YouTube, Facebook or Twitter under these new rules?

On the other hand, there is a clear evidence that authoritarian regimes (Russia) are weaponizing social media, using troll farms, puppet accounts and fake news, to disrupt democracies by sowing discord, uncertainty and doubt and radicalise any and all opinion spectrums. I would be surprised if the Russian trolls did not actively work to promote and decry Covid conspiracies at the same time.

What is the correct solution here, that I don't know. No approach is flawless and there will always be collateral damage.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#187
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. My issue is that why did US health officials say masks were not effective against respiratory infections, when health officials from Asian countries had deemed them effective. Why didn't we have the science? Respiratory infections aren't new. I remember debating people early in the outbreak about the use of masks and they were pointing out that there was little scientific evidence on the use of masks, e…

My issue is that why did US health officials say masks were not effective against respiratory infections, when health officials from Asian countries had deemed them effective. Because Asian countries were basing their advice on science and the US was basing the advice on what would poll well with Republican voters who believe individual freedom is more important than community welfare. The US absolutely did have acce…

I have to disagree on your assessment about whether our science community based the advice on polls from Republican voters.

I was in favor of masks (might have helped since I lived in Asia previously), and debating people early on about the usage. I don't know about now, but there was a lack of published evidence on non n95 masks, and even the use of n95 masks were debatable because of fit tests.

As someone else pointed out, this is what Sweden says to this day.

"The scientific evidence around the effectiveness of face masks in combatting the spread of infection is weak, which is why different countries have arrived at different recommendations."

I doubt the Swedes are trying to sway the US election.

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency...

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#188
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You assume that the WHO and others have to be right all the time everytime. If information is going to be censored based on what they say, they do have to be right all the time. And the point is, they aren't right all the time.

I have a hard time believing they would recommend removing content they aren't sure about. By the way, Youtube has been banning pornography basically since day one. No outcry about that. Counterpoint, would you accept removing content about abortion and gay marriage rights? If the answer is yes, it indicates that it is not free speech you are worried about.

The ban on pornography isn't specific though. A comparable move would be to ban all videos covering medical information - strange but not "we're deciding what the truth is".

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More freedom of speech is the answer to misinformation because then it can be challenged Do we have any evidence that it's true? Anecdotally, it seems that the more the internet has expanded our ability to communicate, the more widespread misinformation has gotten. I see the moral and anti-authoritarian arguments against censorship, but only in the context of accepting the costs. This "have your cake and eat it" ar…

>Anecdotally, it seems that the more the internet has expanded our ability to communicate, the more widespread misinformation has gotten. I don't think this is the right conclusion. After thinking about it more, it's not like the internet is patient zero for conspiracies and misinformation. It's just that the internet has exposed to the rest of us how common it is for people to hold such beliefs.

I think it's more than just us noticing such beliefs for the first time. More people than before seem to be acting on misinformation, which would be apparent even without knowing their private beliefs.

Re: YouTube bans coronavirus vaccine misinformation

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More freedom of speech is the answer to misinformation because then it can be challenged. Censorship allows convenient mistruths to spread unchallenged.

> More freedom of speech is the answer to misinformation because then it can be challenged Do we have any evidence that it's true? Anecdotally, it seems that the more the internet has expanded our ability to communicate, the more widespread misinformation has gotten. I see the moral and anti-authoritarian arguments against censorship, but only in the context of accepting the costs. This "have your cake and eat it" ar…

Is/was there less misinformation among a population living under strong censorship? We have several examples to choose from, and I'd wager there's more, at any point in history compared to freer societies.

> Anecdotally, it seems that the more the internet has expanded our ability to communicate, the more widespread misinformation has gotten.

I completely agree, but why should we assume falsehoods and truth travel at the same rate? History would suggest otherwise.

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