Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

w3c.studio24.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 208 posts

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#181

Post by webmaven »

pythonbase wrote: post #144

What options do we have in Python world if someone wants to migrate CMS based sites built using WordPress ?

> What options do we have in Python world if someone wants to migrate CMS based sites built using WordPress ?

It is more of an equivalent to Drupal than WP in terms of scope, but Plone[0] has been used on a lot of sites, and has ticked all of the boxes mentioned (i18n, a11y, etc.) for a very long time. The underlying Zope web application framework isn't particularly popular these days, but is a solid (if somewhat idiosyncratic) foundation. At 22 years old, you could call Zope the emacs of Python web frameworks.

There are also a variety of CMSs based on Django or Flask, but I'm less familiar with those.

[0] https://plone.org/

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#182

Post by hallman76 »

seanwilson wrote: post #89
chiefalchemist wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I belive that with GatsbyJS you can your a repo + markdown as a "backend".

Does Gatsby build fast enough for a large site though? I find their business model strange if I'm understanding it correctly - faster builds are a paid feature. I also don't understand the hype. I think it's just good marketing, people don't know the alternatives, and it uses React. I usually side with Hugo because it's so fast and simple to get running. I don't love the template language but the majority of sites do…

Fast enough depends on your needs. I work on a Gatsby site that builds ~9k pages in ~9 minutes in AWS CodeBuild. We're looking forward to implementing incremental builds at some point, but our current build time is acceptable.

I see Gatsby similar to Django in that it has "batteries included" for building a modern interactive site. It suits our needs quite well and I'm really happy with it.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#183

Post by uryga »

noahtallen wrote: post #65
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #23

> The use of React complicates front-end build. We have very talented front-end developers, however, they are not React experts - nor should they need to be. > I believe front-end should be built as standards-compliant HTML/CSS with JavaScript used to enrich functionality where necessary and appropriate. This is what worries me about React (and with other front end frameworks in general). I'm writing this as someone…

I think this is an easy misconception to get from the article. But react is just used for instances of the editor inside of WordPress admin because editors are extraordinarily dynamic and interactive. I would suggest that editors are one of the best examples of things that should be SPAs! Any “front end” HTML is generated via PHP. No relation to react :) indeed, most of the accessibility issues with WordPress are in…

> Gutenberg is moving a lot of disparate concepts under the same roof now, and it provides / will provide a uniform, standard way for editing many parts of your site.

yeah, and i hope it'll make the myriad mutually-incompatible page builder plugins die out. yuck. [1]

i'm a bit torn about GB... the goal of allowing tree-ish structures that map to nested DOM elements is great (and something TinyMCE, the old editor, didn't really allow). but the editor needs work. right now, it simultaneously goes too far (everything is a block => editing simple linear text is annoying) and not far enough (editing nodes and moving them around still feels clunky).

and i wish they'd gone with "everything is a node" instead. right now, inline elements are very much second-class citizens – they have to be "formats" within a RichText, a separate non-block thing [2]. they work fine for bold, italics and even links, but they're much more limited than blocks (can't remember specifics now though)

---

[1] if i sound bitter... i am, having had to untangle messes people made with some weird page builder thingy and work with themes that come with their own bespoke page builders (!)

[2] seriously, npmjs.com/@wordpress/rich-text is a package independent from Gutenberg (though it lives in the same monorepo)

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#184

Post by highstep »

lemonberry wrote: post #162
XCSme wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WordPress is more about the ecoystem than the CMS itself. If you just install WordPress without any plugins or themes, it's pretty useless. WordPress is so popular because you will find a plugin or theme to fit almost any need. The majority of the users are not developers that care about composer, WP source code or out-of-the-box potential. They are users who know that once they install this platform they can create…

Wix, Weebly, Squarespace and Webflow all do this better than WordPress now.

sure, but wordpress can cost much less to run

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#185

Post by conatus »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #164
conatus wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. Probably at "agree to disagree" here. I'll agree that its easier to do custom post types on other CMS. But sometimes at the cost of real overheads in terms of complexity for users to swallow to get there. Caching is built into the core, which is what all caching plugins leverage, the interface to it is hidden. PHP is a theming engine. I've never got why people escape into Blade, Twig or so on. PHP was de…

> PHP was designed to have loops, logic, to take variables and so on and interpolate them within HTML. [...] one of the unique capabilities the language has Totally agree, but unfortunately PHP's integration within a markup processor is quick and dirty, without consideration for context-dependent escaping and quoting etc. hence continues to give rise to a large number of HTML injection attacks.

This is true. I understand other languages (for example Go) have very nice features of this kind - contextual auto-escaping and so on. However a lot of other languages also have these footguns around escaping and security.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#186

Post by conatus »

lemonberry wrote: post #154
conatus wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. Probably at "agree to disagree" here. I'll agree that its easier to do custom post types on other CMS. But sometimes at the cost of real overheads in terms of complexity for users to swallow to get there. Caching is built into the core, which is what all caching plugins leverage, the interface to it is hidden. PHP is a theming engine. I've never got why people escape into Blade, Twig or so on. PHP was de…

I've been learning Laravel and Statamic this year. Both are a joy to use. I've been building WP sites for about 7 years. My goal is to never build another WP site again. Gutenberg is just one reason why. I think one thing that's missing from the templating engine argument is WordPress' data model. While PHP may be a templating language WP's API to access data is a huge pain. A great example is wp_nav_menu. To modify…

Massive fan of Laravel. If the relationship between Statamic and Laravel is similar to that between Wagtail and Python, plus the static storage, it seems like it would be very good indeed.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#187

Post by conatus »

LordAtlas wrote: post #163
conatus wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. Probably at "agree to disagree" here. I'll agree that its easier to do custom post types on other CMS. But sometimes at the cost of real overheads in terms of complexity for users to swallow to get there. Caching is built into the core, which is what all caching plugins leverage, the interface to it is hidden. PHP is a theming engine. I've never got why people escape into Blade, Twig or so on. PHP was de…

Mate, Wordpress does not even have a way to manage your images without using a plugin. People using Wordpress to run newspapers and magazine sites have to use a hacked together solution involving either more plugins or writing custom code. As someone who's had to run a magazine site with Wordpress, I can painfully recall all the issues I've faced and cursed the dev team. When you have a few hundred images (and that's…

You probably understand these points better than I do!

I just don't think it is truly as bad as has been made out by the initial comment.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#188

Post by pacifika »

dubcanada wrote: post #116
frereubu wrote: post #76

I'm technical director of an agency that builds websites solely in WordPress, and I can say with feeling that Gutenberg has (so far) been a disaster not just in terms of accessibility but in terms of clarity of the development process. It's been a moving target since day one, with us constantly scrambling to keep up with large changes in each release. We held off for a while, and have only built three sites with it,…

I'm obviously in my own bubble, but I don't understand people complaining about WordPress. WordPress is by far the worst CMS you could possibly use, every other single CMS is better in every capacity. Let's go through why - Uses PHP 5 spaghetti code with a handful of garbage event listeners and output buffering - Has no integration with composer at all - Doesn't have any form of content types without plugins - Has no…

https://wpackagist.org/

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#189

Post by lemonberry »

highstep wrote: post #184
lemonberry wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wix, Weebly, Squarespace and Webflow all do this better than WordPress now.

sure, but wordpress can cost much less to run

Honestly, I'd love to see some numbers these days. If you're a developer, sure. But I've seen very few non-tech types that manage their own WP sites. And the ones that do tend to put a a lot of time into tutorials of various kinds. Start throwing a price tag on that time and I suspect WP becomes more expensive.

Re: On not choosing WordPress for the W3C redesign project

#190

Post by lemonberry »

conatus wrote: post #186
lemonberry wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been learning Laravel and Statamic this year. Both are a joy to use. I've been building WP sites for about 7 years. My goal is to never build another WP site again. Gutenberg is just one reason why. I think one thing that's missing from the templating engine argument is WordPress' data model. While PHP may be a templating language WP's API to access data is a huge pain. A great example is wp_nav_menu. To modify…

Massive fan of Laravel. If the relationship between Statamic and Laravel is similar to that between Wagtail and Python, plus the static storage, it seems like it would be very good indeed.

I don't know anything about Wagtail or Python so I can't speak to the comparison. However, I chose Statamic because it's a Laravel package and can be extended via Laravel. That adds a lot of flexibility to it. From what I understand Livewire is also compatible with Statamic.
Post reply on HN