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How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

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181–190 of 324 posts

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#181
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking about this more, wasn't there a time, maybe late 90s early 2000s when the message was that plastic is more environmental than paper? Something like at the supermarket checkout you should pick plastic over paper bags to save rain forest trees? Is my memory wrong or was this a widespread message at the time?

Recall that up until extremely recently- only a few decades ago- the nation was rapidly exhausting its timber supplies. It was not managed as a renewable resource.

That must have been around 1910, according to page 7 of this document: https://www.fia.fs.fed.us/library/brochures/docs/2012/Forest...

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#182
They mention decreasing quality when recycling, but I wonder about less-chemical recycling opportunities.

For example, composite decking (Trex et al) combines sawdust and resin. It can be used for picnic tables and such. Road surfaces use ground tires now. Someone makes large nesting blocks for low-stress construction instead of concrete. PET can be made into fleece for garments, how about using it for insulation or other applications?

We should be embracing this stuff in new ways.

https://www.alternativesjournal.ca/science-and-solutions/pop...

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#183
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you able to purchase, for instance, liquid dairy products without packaging? Have you had to cut out whole categories of food?

Regarding beverages, things changed a lot when I learned that for most of human existence, after weaning, our ancestors drank only water. I've come to see how I used to look at other beverages as entitled, the result of marketing. I drink some other beverages, but mostly water, and I've found my total joy from drinking higher . Sort of like how in college I drank a lot of beer. Now I sip whiskey sometimes -- less alc…

And yet ironically beer is one of the most completely recycled products. Shipped in brown glass or steel kegs...

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#184

The whole recycling scam makes me upset. For decades the message was to recycle for the environment. But it was all just shipped to China and then dumped into the oceans. It actually would've been better if it went to landfills, at least then it's safely contained. Another lie was that we're running out of landfill space, there's so much land out there. Like most environmental issues, the focus should've been on prod…

Thinking about this more, wasn't there a time, maybe late 90s early 2000s when the message was that plastic is more environmental than paper? Something like at the supermarket checkout you should pick plastic over paper bags to save rain forest trees? Is my memory wrong or was this a widespread message at the time?

Yeah I remember that too. I worked in a grocery store in the 90’s and we were told to default to plastic for the simple reason that it was less expensive.

Managers hated nothing more than the customer who requested “paper, double bagged”. I think our cost was about 3 cents per paper bag if I recall the training video correctly. Because of generally low margins it really eats into profits.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#186
post #48

I am hopeful that the initiative which uses waste stream plastics as a component of asphalt will allow us to finally get some decent alternative to landfill for plastics. The best part about it was that the plastics didn't need to be sorted or clean; it is just going to be melted, pelletized and then mixed with hot tar to make asphalt. Since asphalt is now nearly infinitely recycled the plastics will be kept in use f…

Actually there are two dominant sources of micro plastics in the oceans: tires and asphalt. There are other sources as well but those are the big ones.

If you think about it, roads need regular up keep because they erode away. Same for tires, which need replacing regularly. Where does that material go? Well it all gets ground into small particles as cars and trucks use the roads. Car tires get warm when you use them because of friction. That friction inevitably wears out the roads and the tires. So you end up with fine dust and particles that eventually washes away when it rains and ends up in rivers and eventually our oceans.

So, converting plastic bags to asphalt is a great way of ensuring a lot of it ends up in our oceans.

The challenge with plastics is not necessarily recycling them but figuring out what is what so you can recycle them properly. Household trash is full of a wide variety of plastics. Sorting these and processing them is not impossible but a bit of a challenge if it's all mixed up.

There are some startups innovating in this space and it's not completely hopeless at this point. Also there are new materials that degrade better/more predictably, certain bacteria have been discovered that actually eat plastics, and we're figuring out cleaner ways of producing source materials in ways that don't involve using fossil oil.

But maybe converting oil to plastics for 1 use products or packaging should just not be that cheap as it is currently. The attitude of "it's not our problem" for both producers and consumers is the core issue. Make it their problem and it's suddenly a lot less attractive to use plastic because cost goes up when you do that.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#187
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper isn’t bad because it breaks down quickly. Plastic has this bad habit of sticking around for 10,000 years (and longer).

Shells and coral also don't decompose and turn into limestone after enough time. Plastic is more toxic, but I can't imagine it being much worse than oil shale when it's compressed. Maybe humanity's legacy in a million years will be a bunch of plastic rocks.

George Carlin: "And if it’s true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new paradigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn’t share our prejudice toward plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn’t know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, “Why are we here?”

Plastic… asshole.”

Full text: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/251836-we-re-so-self-import...

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#188
post #140
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't the remaining waste be efficiently used to generate energy in a waste incinerator? They are still high-energy oil products after all, and no longer mixed in with all kinds of wet biomass.

Exactly what I've been saying for years. Public perception of incinerators is pretty poor though.

They have a generally good reputation here in Sweden.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#189
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay 1.5CHF per 35l trash bag ($1.65 per 9.2 gallons) and recycling does not accept plastic other than bottles. Still have no way to evade plastic packaging.

If the proportion of plastic-packaged goods in your life hasn't reduced then you (unlike most people) clearly don't buy stuff on amazon. Or from big-box retailers. The other day I bought a product from Home Depot that had a glued-in-plastic window in a cardboard package (this makes the cardboard unrecycleable). It looked so alien. I hadn't seen packaging like that from a major retailer in years. Evade? Never. Reduce?…

Amazon does not have a shop in three out of the four European countries I lived in, including the current one.

Edit: technically, it operates in two of them, having both some warehouses and R&D offices, but does not have a storefront for them.

Re: How Big Oil Misled the Public into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still remember that one of the textbooks even started an answer with "natürlich trenne ich Müll" ('well, of course I sort my trash...'). Here in the US many communities use "single-stream" recycling (and we applaud ourselves for the effort too). But I wonder how many communities really deliver those contents back to production, especially since China stopped importing it.

Single stream recycling is a scam. It started recently. But it is making its way everywhere because it eases collection systems on municipalities. Few people realize that when you mix paper and beverage containers, you get non-recyclable paper and difficult to recycle beverage containers. Further shredded paper cannot be recycled in single stream systems. It wreaks havoc on the system.

AIUI, bottles and cans are sorted easily from paper. Also as the glass/steel/aluminium is going in a furnace some contamination is fine. Contamination the other way is sorted by float-beds; and paper gets shredded and washed anyway as part of the recycling process.

Could you expand on what you think the problem is here?

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