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'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

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Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#181

Post by panzagl »

arminiusreturns wrote: post #130
dualboot wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"headbutting of cultures that so many Americans on the coastal big cities just don't get or approve of, and love to condescendingly talk about that kind of personality as lesser or barbarous in some way." This cultural divide has deep roots in the power struggle that was created when the people who settled the Appalachian's figured out that converting fields of corn into distilled bottles of whisky was far more prof…

That's an interesting take I hadn't really thought of before. Do you have any book or reading recommendations on the topic?

"Albion's Seed" by David Hackett Fischer was the foundation of the Appalachian studies course I took a couple decades ago. Basically you had the old Tidewater aristocracy, the Puritans who supplanted them as the intellectual elite from the Revolution to the Civil War, and the Scots Irish who were kicked from the border marches to Ireland to America to Appalachia. Explains a lot of the class and religious differences that are still apparent in the red/blue divide.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#182

Post by Zak »

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #160
Johnny555 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My nephew lives in a very isolated rural area on the east coast and I think you're overselling the "people in the community learn emergency medicine" part - he has no idea how to handle much more than stopping bleeding for a cut (his answer to any size cut is to slather it with antibiotic ointment, which the doctors then have to scrub out before they can suture) or maybe stabilizing a broken leg enough to move someon…

He did romanticize the whole situation. The situation he's talking about could easily be the rural south or Appalachia. As someone from one of those areas, let me assure you, the "ruggedness" isn't beautiful, it's because there is a lack of service. And the ruggedness shows on the people and their homes.

I grew up in Alaska, and I think I disagree in a philosophical sense.

There's a lot of stuff hacked together in ways experts in the relevant fields would certainly not find beautiful. Expanding foam is probably not in the toolkit of very many master architects; most people have never read an electrical code (and in many places, there's no entity imposing one); many boats, snowmobiles, and other vehicles have been adapted in ways that would make the engineers who designed them want a drink or three.

Most of it works though, like that shell script you hacked together as a teenager from random mailing list archives to automate some task that still needs automating 15 years later. It works and it enables people to do things they could not otherwise do (the economics to support the relevant professional services wouldn't work). I see a beauty in that.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#183

Post by objectivetruth »

tylerjwilk00 wrote: post #150
arminiusreturns wrote: post #36

Can anecdotally confirm. Sometimes it quite annoys me that those personality traits are so embedded in myself though, because it seems to constantly be a headbutting of cultures that so many Americans on the coastal big cities just don't get or approve of, and love to condescendingly talk about that kind of personality as lesser or barbarous in some way. I love the mountains and freedom they offered me, the lessons t…

This is happening where I live. Previously huge tracks of mountain and forest are slowly being cut up. However, it's the rich newcomers that are selfish with their land. When we were children we had ATVs/dirtbikes and could put in hundred miles a day of riding. Now many trails have gates and no trespassing signs. Used to be a sense of shared commonwealth amongst connected properties. Now, it's the "privatization" of…

Counter-point: ATVs and dirtbikes are noisy and tear up terrain and don't belong in "nature" aka the private property of people that don't want to hear them or see their tracks.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#184

Post by cycloptic »

01100011 wrote: post #178
noir_lord wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much the same, I can re-wire a house (factory actually though it's been a long time since I trained as an industrial sparks), plaster, do basic joinery, plumbing, tiling, engine/motorcycle maintenance (I do my motorcycle and rebuilt scramblers when I was a kid), weld (not done it for a long time but it'd come back), sheet metal work etc all to a reasonable or better standard. I've never lived out in the countr…

> I genuinely don't understand people who aren't willing to learn this stuff even if they pay someone else to do it As a rich guy I knew used to say, do what you do best, and give away all the rest. I spent my 30s doing all the things you mentioned and more. There was some joy in it, I will admit, but I am vastly less wealthy than if I had focused on my consulting business and learned how to negotiate and supervise t…

I think you are conflating things. The idea I see behind most self-reliance is that it significantly reduces the amount of wealth needed to accomplish everyday tasks. Following that, you wouldn't see much of a need for those do-it-yourself types to accumulate wealth just for the sake of doing so.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#185

Post by spenczar5 »

clord wrote: post #176
kilroy123 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you use the internet? Do you have a phone signal?

I live in a similar way in Canada, and I run long range ubiquiti radios (~12km) to nearest small town. get 150-200mbps and since I have battery backup + generator, usually the only reason it goes down is if the ISP router dies. I get ~1 bar of LTE that flickers to 3g, but with wifi calling it's not an issue. In addition to changing my own alternator, I run a small ISP for my neighbours :)

I'd like to know more about how you arranged this. In that small town, it sounds like you have some sort of connection to an ISP. Do you lease space on a tower to do that? Do you have a friend with an office nearby, and you connect there somehow? Is the ISP friendly and willing to set this up with you?

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#186

Post by chrisco255 »

clord wrote: post #176
kilroy123 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you use the internet? Do you have a phone signal?

I live in a similar way in Canada, and I run long range ubiquiti radios (~12km) to nearest small town. get 150-200mbps and since I have battery backup + generator, usually the only reason it goes down is if the ISP router dies. I get ~1 bar of LTE that flickers to 3g, but with wifi calling it's not an issue. In addition to changing my own alternator, I run a small ISP for my neighbours :)

Wow I didn't even know about these radios and how reasonably priced they are for the range!

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#187

Post by blueyes »

I grew up in a mountainous area of the US, and can confirm the presence of these personality traits, although it's hard for me to evaluate if they are more or less prevalent than in the coastal city where I now live (hello, mobility!). It's so hard to see into the lives of others, especially of enough of them to get a representative sample.

For those interested in the history of the European settlement of the US, I would suggest the book Albion's Seed:

https://b-ok.cc/book/1242050/e88335

The relevant part of the book is about the Scots-Irish settlers who came from the Borderlands. Those "Borderers," or Rievers, are historically combative, individualistic, and distrustful of government. They settled large parts of Appalachia, and from there they helped to clear the forests of the midwest and mine the Rockies. Think Daniel Boone. Think Alamo. They like to think they are independent and they like to fight.

The repercussions on US politics are huge.

It's hard to tell from the article through the link what the authors are asserting. While the conditions in the mountains may cultivate certain characteristics, they also attract certain populations. So this could be as simple as: mountain people settle in the mountains.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#188

Post by bluejellybean »

pnathan wrote: post #66
phobosanomaly wrote: post #51

In many parts of the United States when you call 911, you're lucky if anyone shows up within an hour. It's a couple hours to get to a Wal-Mart or a store. It's difficult to get anyone to drive 40 minutes outside the nearest town and navigate unmarked dirt roads to do basic plumbing or home repairs. As a result, people have to learn to repair things, make things, use a gun, do first aid, lay shingles, hang drywall, po…

> In many parts of the United States when you call 911, you're lucky if anyone shows up within an hour. It's a couple hours to get to a Wal-Mart or a store. It's difficult to get anyone to drive 40 minutes outside the nearest town and navigate unmarked dirt roads to do basic plumbing or home repairs. That's pretty far out; I think that's pretty extreme. At least in Idaho/WA IMO (different geography and settlement pat…

I invite you to visit Northern Michigan! This world exists only 7 hours, by car, north of Chicago, a metro area with something like 9.5 million people. Hardly 'pretty far out' in my opinion. Growing up I had to call EMS a few times for various things, if you're not directly in town or on a tourist road, one can expect some seriously long waits. Washed out 2 track during a light rain isn't exactly something an ambulance move quickly on.

People adapt to their environments, if you have to fix your car in the country, you learn to fix your car. If you have to fix your car in the city, you learn to schmooze the repair guy into giving you a better deal.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#189

Post by war1025 »

cycloptic wrote: post #184
01100011 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I genuinely don't understand people who aren't willing to learn this stuff even if they pay someone else to do it As a rich guy I knew used to say, do what you do best, and give away all the rest. I spent my 30s doing all the things you mentioned and more. There was some joy in it, I will admit, but I am vastly less wealthy than if I had focused on my consulting business and learned how to negotiate and supervise t…

I think you are conflating things. The idea I see behind most self-reliance is that it significantly reduces the amount of wealth needed to accomplish everyday tasks. Following that, you wouldn't see much of a need for those do-it-yourself types to accumulate wealth just for the sake of doing so.

> you wouldn't see much of a need for those do-it-yourself types to accumulate wealth just for the sake of doing so.

Exactly this.

Money is a way to get other people to do things for you.

If you are happier doing the things yourself, the money doesn't have much use.

At a certain point, gaining more wealth just doesn't matter.

Re: 'Wild West' mentality lingers in modern populations of US mountain regions

#190

Post by TulliusCicero »

ColanR wrote: post #30
TulliusCicero wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most non-spiteful stereotypes have some truth to them.

I think the caveat may not even be needed. [Many] stereotypes have some truth to them.

Yes, but I find the ones that aren't clearly condescending/antagonistic tend to be a lot more accurate. Ones like "women can't drive" aren't coming purely from a place of earnest observation, but from a desire to other and mock another demographic. That makes them suspect, because you know the originators of the stereotype were going out of their way to find something bad.
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