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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#181

Post by toyg »

wcarey wrote: post #172
toyg wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Developers have increasingly taken adversarial positions with their users And who do we have to thank for that turn? Apple's culture that "we know better" is a good part of that problem. Developers want to be Apple , and Apple is pretty abusive towards their users. They take the occasional pro-user stance where it suits them, but overall it's pretty clear that the only institutional interest for Apple is Apple's ow…

I'd say that I'm less defending absolute monarchy, and more defending the rule of law against the Hobbesean state of nature, with all its caprice and cruelty. For example, if Apple conducted plebiscites of its users and used those plebiscites in informing its collective bargaining with developers, I think that'd be fine. That would force Apple to articulate the value proposition of the positions it takes.

I would object less to that for sure, but you have to admit that there is absolutely zero chance of that ever happening: Apple never relinquishes control. The closest to it, ironically, is to go through the actual legal system and see what judges, tasked with interpreting the people's will encoded in laws, will say. Something that they will now have to do, probably several times, until they accept that there is an easier way.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#182

Post by cma »

swebs wrote: post #50
pjmlp wrote: post #19

Epic is just the new gang in town establishing themselves while trying to get some shops under their control, by playing being against the long time block owners.

This. Actions speak louder than words and Epic's anti-Linux actions with their store are extremely telling that their rhetoric about supporting open platforms is purely self-serving.

Valve has had a lot more Linux support, but it seems like they just want Steam to be "Google Play Services" for desktop Linux. GPL software can't even communicate with friends on Steam, isolating the open source community and ultimately turning their devs, if they want to be part of Steam's extensive gaming social network, into serfs for the store.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#183

Post by damnyou »

hn_check wrote: post #173
klmadfejno wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what the judge is ruling is not allowed. There's no basis for it. Apple can't go after an unrelated business because it's having a temper tantrum and feeling spiteful. The fact that fortnite is built on UE doesn't have any significance here.

Epic knowingly, intentionally, and publicly defied Apple's rules. In response Apple "threatened" exactly what they threaten every single other company doing the same -- to suspend or terminate your developer accounts if you don't remediate the issue. There is absolutely a basis for it, it certainly isn't "unrelated", and trying to attribute motives like spite or having a "temper tantrum" is baseless nonsense. The cou…

Wow, this site has completely given into the cult of Apple. Thankfully the judge is a reasonable person who is interested in actual harms more than the letter of a TOS.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#184

Post by cycloptic »

ericmay wrote: post #135
hhjinks wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sure love having a faceless trillion-dollar company making choices for me to try to keep me and my device safe.

Well, they have a good enough track record so far. If you feel the iPhone is unsafe, you're free to buy a different phone or not use one at all. Why would Apple be less incentivized than another company, like Epic, to protect your data? Apple sells the iPhone and markets it toward pro-privacy and security. Going against that is not in their own best interest. It's in Epic's interest to break through that, because the…

>Why would Apple be less incentivized than another company, like Epic, to protect your data?

Probably because their store doesn't have to compete? I would say they really are not doing a good job at this considering their track record contains plenty of dark patterns, privacy violations, tracking, data mining, censorship, and so on. If you don't believe me I can provide plenty of examples. The situation might be marginally better than a low-end Android device that typically comes loaded with OEM malware, but that's not saying much.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#185

Post by LexGray »

klmadfejno wrote: post #111
msh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a security nightmare.

Then make it hard, with a scary pop up, so technical people can make an informed choice and tech illiterates cannot.

Pop up theatre seems to stop very few non-technical users from clicking allow. This is why so many people get their family iPhones to start with.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#186

Post by devwastaken »

hellisothers wrote: post #140

I find a lot of the comments here split down “I want app regulation because I feel it provides a layer of safety and safety is good for the consumer” vs “I want more freedom and choice because choice is good and is better for the consumer”. Which brings to mind two things This sounds similar to the current brouhaha happening in the US over America’s inclination towards personal freedom at all cost even when govt regu…

There's only two choices, which means the market is monopalized. If apple had been reasonable we wouldn't be having this discussion. Apple has shown it can no longer reasonably regulate its own market and will not be the Shepard. Their significant efforts of verticle integration from hardware to software shows their inclination to creating walled garden markets that compete at the economy of scale and are designed to eliminate competition.

No company is allowed to control a market of other companies without oversight. Given that oversight from apple is corrupted it must be provided in other means.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#187

Post by havelhovel »

hellisothers wrote: post #140

I find a lot of the comments here split down “I want app regulation because I feel it provides a layer of safety and safety is good for the consumer” vs “I want more freedom and choice because choice is good and is better for the consumer”. Which brings to mind two things This sounds similar to the current brouhaha happening in the US over America’s inclination towards personal freedom at all cost even when govt regu…

“Apple is doing it to be Apple” is my understanding as well. As a developer, I understand the terms before making business decisions. As a consumer, I buy a product as advertised. What I hope for in both cases is consistency. I want Apple to keep being Apple, for better or for worse, because my decisions were based on that constant. Epic wants Apple to not be Apple. I’m not sure if I want Epic’s Apple.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#189

Post by damnyou »

hellisothers wrote: post #140

I find a lot of the comments here split down “I want app regulation because I feel it provides a layer of safety and safety is good for the consumer” vs “I want more freedom and choice because choice is good and is better for the consumer”. Which brings to mind two things This sounds similar to the current brouhaha happening in the US over America’s inclination towards personal freedom at all cost even when govt regu…

The current level of "regulation" in iOS is very bad for society, so of course I want it to not be "special" any more. When you have the level of power that Apple does in society, different rules apply.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#190

Post by withinboredom »

LexGray wrote: post #176
jpambrun wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No monopoly is a monopoly until it's a worldwide monopoly?

Not current numbers but some old projections put 2020 projected android users would be around 127 million users in US. iOS projected 110 million in 2021 in US. Does 50% market share when achieved even equal a monopoly?

> Does 50% market share when achieved even equal a monopoly?

In the US, yes. Defacto monopoly.

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