How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France • Hacker News Board

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#181

Post by ldng » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:29 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #144

ldng wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet hundreds of companies are created every year. You just illustrate the tipical French mentality ingrained by media all year long. A comment full of cliché. If France is so bad, move out. You'll learn a thing or two in the process. Beginning with the grass is not always greener elsewhere.

> If France is so bad, move out Be careful what you wish for, because "they" are indeed moving out. Human capital flight is a very real problem in France.

As granted elsewhere in the thread, it is poorly worded. But it is fine to go. But then count those who move back.

That said, reality is lot of businesses have moved in since Brexit, despite supposed overwhelming bureaucracy.

Maybe the truth is elsewhere and much more complicated than broad blanket statements and politically biased myths that keep spreading.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#182

Post by ldng » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

lma21 wrote: post #112

user5994461 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the taxes on French salaries for reference. - The company has 60k budget. - 25% goes to employer tax (charges patronales). 45k left. That's commonly called the gross salary (salaire brut). - 25% goes to employee tax (charges sociales). 34k left. Commonly called the net salary (salaire net) - Employee pays income tax at the end of the year. The rate is progressive and highly variable depending on personal situa…

Charges patronales and charges sociales are not really "taxes" given your understanding of taxation. Charges patronales and charges sociales are well explained in every payslip, i.e. where that money goes and how the employee/employer benefit from them. Also, every person's net income tax is also explained and you can see where it goes. At the end of the day, when a French person loses their job (even if they're a no…

The term "Charges" is not even legally correct. It is a way to give it a negative bias on purpose.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#183

Post by refurb » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

harha wrote: post #54

doukdouk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this feels so wasteful, especially the CIR and formerly the CICE. Instead of having low taxes, you have nominally high taxes and a bazillion paperwork-heavy to make them low. Might as well just make them low in the first place.

I like the way Singapore keeps it simple by having tax exemptions and lower rates for the first $ X of income (and overall lower tax than most places in Europe), this is easy to work with and allows you to reinvest in ways you see fit rather than having to deal with a bunch of other entities from advisors to government agencies that all have their own agenda. Edit: corporate income that is.

I love how Singapore’s income tax calculator fits on a single page in excel.

https://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/uploadedFiles/IRASHome/Indi...

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#184

Post by ldng » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:47 PM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #172

lma21 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charges patronales and charges sociales are not really "taxes" given your understanding of taxation. Charges patronales and charges sociales are well explained in every payslip, i.e. where that money goes and how the employee/employer benefit from them. Also, every person's net income tax is also explained and you can see where it goes. At the end of the day, when a French person loses their job (even if they're a no…

I agree that it's great for the French worker (way better than how US workers are treated), but you have to also see how it's a disincentive for a French entrepreneur to create a new company, no?

It has been that way quite a few decades. Yet, people are still creating companies. So maybe it is harder than somewhere else but it is far from being the only problem you'll meet when creating a company.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#185

Post by davidivadavid » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:54 PM UTC

toto444 wrote: post #161

js4ever wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just use the link you have provided, if you fill the last field (net salary after tax, what is really paid to the bank account of the employee) to 30k/year, the total cost for employer is 57,950€. And not 41k like you mentioned

30K net / year is a decent salary in France considering it you don't have to save for retirement, childcare is cheap, school is free, uni is free, health insurance is cheap and you don't have to save too much in case you are unemployed because the benefits are decent.

Oh so some people still believe you don't have to save for retirement in France. The legend lives on.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#186

Post by ldng » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #101

bouzouk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in Paris for a very long time and having started a few businesses (current one: a challenger bank with 20+ employees), I don’t relate to anything you are saying. Yes there are high taxes, (not half of the salary, for a software engineer it is very often around 30%) but they basically cover a lot of employee services that you would need to pay extra for in the US (health coverage, retirement,...). Most startup…

> Aren’t you just repeating some stereotypes you heard elsewhere? If France were as hostile as you pictured it, how would it have such a dense startup ecosystem and even (God forbids!) some very successful ones? Where are they? Cause as a French, I've been living on the startup scene for 10 years, and I don't see those anywhere. There are successful companies, but startup? I hear about a 1000 more US ones than french…

Is it fair to compare France to USA though ? In term of scale maybe comparing to Europe would be better.

Are you both saying that you are "living on the startup scene" but don't see any startup ? Or any successful ones. On the top of my head I can already cite you Blablacar, CapitaineTrain, Dailymotion, Deezer as relatively successful for the French market ... Of course if you're looking for planetary mastodon as sign of success ...

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#187

Post by refurb » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

fredo wrote: post #179

Well I lived in US and created a company in Paris. US administration didn't look simpler to me... Tax in NYC were huge and it didn't include the schools for my kids. If you're 18 yr old and care only about your own needs, go to US (if you can get a visa, remember trump don't like foreigners and 401k). France is better when you want a family or life conditions of a rich country.

NYC is arguably the highest taxes locale in the US.

Try the same comparison with say, Seattle.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#188

Post by refurb » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

x87678r wrote: post #158

Taxes and paperwork in France (and Europe) really doesn't sound that bad to me. What does sound very different are the labor laws. You can't just fire someone because its illegal to do so. You can't just hire a bunch of people quickly because people dont switch jobs as often. The team can't work 80 hrs a week because that isn't allowed either.

The one that got me was an employee needs to give 3 months notice that they are quitting.

It’s typically 2 weeks in the US and that’s more a nice to have than a requirement.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#189

Post by ldng » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:18 PM UTC

belzebalex wrote: post #55

lm28469 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm French, French people are blind and most of them have no idea how easy it is to live in France compared to basically any other countries in the world. I guess it's a lack of perspective, anyone who spent any amount of time in eastern europe or in the US (places which aren't even that bad to begin with) would instantly see how lucky they are to live in France.

I agree with some of that. But we can only live like that in the short term. We're currently China-sponsored: just look at the size of our debt! The 2021 budget is half funded by debt! One day will come when we'll have to make aggressive cuts in our way of life because France won't produce anything anymore.

A state does not work as a company or a home. It is a tad more complicated than that. First the debt is acquired at near 0% interest. Second, most of it is own to Europe not China. Finally, it will very probably be quietly defaulted in a few year and nobody will notice.

Re: How I got the French Tech Visa to start my company in France

#190

Post by ldng » Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 11:38 PM UTC

Qiu_Zhanxuan wrote: post #27

nix23 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> €157,806+: 45% That's the problem you see?

reality check, 120k€/year already puts you in the top 1% of income earner in France. Past this point you should be satisfied with how much you've already earned and maybe starts caring more about the impact your job/company should have...

Double downing on the reality check, 120k€/year is the top 1% of income earner in the vast majority of the World taking into account healthcare, retirement and education.