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Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

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Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#181

Post by 14 »

wsay wrote: post #168
richrichardsson wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point was that making it easier to repair will compromise something like device size or weight, making it less attractive to the larger portion of the population. If they could provide the same form factor and make it easily repairable, then I think you would be right that would be attractive to all, however I think small size and repairability are mutually exclusive properties.

Ten minutes watching YouTube will demonstrate that amateurs are certainly capable of repairing todays devices, even down to something small like an apple watch, so small size and reparability are clearly not mutually exclusive. Why would they be anyway? Certified repair technicians aren't magic, they just have access to training, parts and tools that help.

You should see the insanely tiny pads I had to solder to on my Xbox 360 to install the RGH mod. With a 10$ solder iron, homemade flux, miracle I was able to do it. But I did repeat it and given the same incentive even if they made it smaller next time I would get some jewellers glasses and a better iron.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#182

Post by chromedev »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #153
chromedev wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple fans seem okay with this and also not being able to install apps outside the app store.

Its usually less that they are ok with these problems and more that the alternatives have even more problems. Most OEMs copied apples designs so everything is shit. Rather than taking your laptop to the local apple store you now have to send it off to china and face all the same problems. Windows also isn't useful for productivity and linux is only viable for certain jobs.

I use Linux fine and it is a requirement that I be able to run Linux before accepting a job. When it comes to Android though, they already allow external apps through a security permission that I use for F-Droid and sometimes other apps outside of F-Droid, like Kodi on my Fire TV.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#183

Post by AriaMinaei »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #176
sinak wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Apple trying to avoid real Right to Repair legislation by taking actions that look like they support independent repair. Consider taking a moment to donate to https://repair.org/ - we're pushing to get Right to Repair laws passed in state legislatures across the US.

This has the same problem I've seen with other such proposals: it joins together "you should have the legal right to repair" with "manufacturers should be forced to make only devices with modular replaceable parts". The latter sounds good in theory, except if it means thicker, heavier, less optimized devices. By all means offer such devices, but don't take away the option of devices at a different point on the tradeo…

> except if it means thicker, heavier, less optimized devices

Speaking specifically of my MBP Retina, and looking inside, I fail to see how eg. a soldered NVME would make the laptop any thinner. There is plenty of space created by the much thicker heat sink, leaving room for a bunch of components to be modular.

The reason all these components are soldered in is to make it hard for users or small shops to do quick repairs and cheap upgrades.

You must buy a new laptop for a RAM upgrade.

Apple negotiates with component suppliers as a single buyer, drives the price of components down, keeps all the savings to itself, and re-sells the components at an exorbitant markup.

It is ridiculous for anyone to think this has got anything to do with quality.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#184

Post by wjdp »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #153
chromedev wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple fans seem okay with this and also not being able to install apps outside the app store.

Its usually less that they are ok with these problems and more that the alternatives have even more problems. Most OEMs copied apples designs so everything is shit. Rather than taking your laptop to the local apple store you now have to send it off to china and face all the same problems. Windows also isn't useful for productivity and linux is only viable for certain jobs.

We buy Lenovo ThinkPads for work. We pay a bit more (not that much, like £50 a laptop I think) for the warranty package. When something goes wrong they send a tech out who repairs it onsite. More minor things like hard drive issues they just ship us a new NVMe drive and we swap it.

I think the techs work for IBM, weird they still keep this bit.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#185

Post by larsnystrom »

jstummbillig wrote: post #170
kyriakos wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's workaround may work in US but don't think it will get very far in EU

I don't know. It's infuriating what Apple gets away with in Germany. For example right now to maybe get my 2018 MacBook Pro keyboard fixed, I have to relinquish the unit for a minimum of five workdays. Mind you nobody guarantees me that they will actually do the repair within the time frame or that it will in fact be covered by the extended warranty. This is just the minimum time they will hold the unit to have a loo…

I actually just handed in my 2016 MBP and got the keyboard replaced under their extended 4 year “butterfly mishap”-warranty. The new keyboard feels so much better than the last one. Plus they also replaced the battery because it’s all soldered together, so battery life got like 50% better. It cost me nothing and they did it when I was on vacation anyway, so it wasn’t much of a nuisance. No data loss at all.

I live in Sweden but I think they sent it to Czech Republic for the replacement. Handed it in Monday evening and got it delivered to my door Tuesday the week thereafter.

All in all it was totally worth it, but I’ve only had it for a few weeks now so who knows how long it’ll last this time.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#186

Post by sushshshsh »

deepstack wrote: post #163
sushshshsh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a real believer in right to repair. But I wonder, if we are unable to achieve legislative results, what can be done to build hardware on open standards?

Apple is hardware maker. Of course it make sense for them to design the hardware so only they can repair it. It is part of their business model.

Should we also have to pay $990 for oil changes on a leased BMW? ^.^

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#187

Post by JoshTriplett »

AriaMinaei wrote: post #183
JoshTriplett wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has the same problem I've seen with other such proposals: it joins together "you should have the legal right to repair" with "manufacturers should be forced to make only devices with modular replaceable parts". The latter sounds good in theory, except if it means thicker, heavier, less optimized devices. By all means offer such devices, but don't take away the option of devices at a different point on the tradeo…

> except if it means thicker, heavier, less optimized devices Speaking specifically of my MBP Retina, and looking inside, I fail to see how eg. a soldered NVME would make the laptop any thinner. There is plenty of space created by the much thicker heat sink, leaving room for a bunch of components to be modular. The reason all these components are soldered in is to make it hard for users or small shops to do quick rep…

A modular battery would make the laptop bulkier. If a modular NVMe drive wouldn't, it's because other components have already have. And beyond that, you should be comparing to an Air or MacBook, if we're talking about devices that have been optimized at the expense of modularity.

Also, soldering down RAM means you don't have to include support for negotiating the properties and quality of arbitrary RAM sticks, which you'd have to do with socketed RAM; that can mean booting faster and providing more performance.

There are good reasons to design components to work specifically with other components. There are also good reasons to make devices more modular. Both have value, to different users with different use cases.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#188

Post by tim333 »

xhruso00 wrote: post #104

Recently my MBP 2015 couldn’t boot because of the dead battery. I asked authorized repair centre and they quoted 400EUR as they need to order whole topcase. This is such a ripoff from Apple. Almost no one ships batteries cross border now. Finding a good replacement is almost an impossible task. The only thing I want the battery to be safe (not catching on fire or damaging my MBP)

>Almost no one ships batteries cross border now.

I'm a little puzzled. I went on amazon uk where I happened to be and searched "macbook pro battery 2015" and got dozens of results, some with 5* reviews and from reputable companies like Sloda for example. Prices around 70 EUR. I swapped my 2013 Air battery the other day which takes about 2 mins. Not sure how hard it is on the 2015 pro.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#189

Post by fendy3002 »

viridian wrote: post #178
oxfordmale wrote: post #164

Lack of repairability is the main reason I do not buy Mac Books. Yes, they are more reliable, however, if you encounter a problem, you endure a long wait at a Mac Book repair centre that is miles away. My work laptop developed an issue while I was on holidays in Spain, and if it had been a PC it could have been easily fixed by any of the local repair centres. Of course Apple being Apple, I would have to drive 2 hours…

Last I checked apple was forth in manufacture reliability, behind Asus, Toshiba, and Sony. They are better than average, but people really overestimate the build quality of the macbook.

Is it for laptop? Got any source? I wonder at which place Thinkpad / Lenovo is. And I'm amazed that Asus is better than Apple.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#190

Post by mschuster91 »

jhallenworld wrote: post #34
maire wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal should be self repair. I want the manuals and parts so I can make my own repair.

Exactly right. I can (and do) repair my own car. Not so long ago you it was a normal thing that you could build your own TV... https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Catalogs/Allied-Catalo...

> I can (and do) repair my own car.

Out of random interest, what age is your car? Personally back when I had it I felt comfortable doing everything except steering, brakes and structural frame work on my 1994 VW T4, but I wouldn't dare touch a modern car. Too much investment required for special tooling, and diagnosis of problems requires a computer and specialized programs in contrast to a multimeter...

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