I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#181

Post by zepto » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:49 PM UTC

ponker wrote: post #171

zepto wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mechanisms used by Hey and xCloud would clearly be used by less trustworthy companies for nefarious purposes. Hey was able to alter their app trivially to comply with the guidelines, so it actually represents nothing at all here. xCloud can’t be altered to comply, but nevertheless if app steaming were allowed in general, all of App review could be bypassed by bad actors.

If the app review process is supposed to ban objectionable content then why is Netflix allowed? What stops Netflix from putting bestiality porn on their service (and thus onto iDevices) any more than Microsoft putting objectionable games on xCloud? Simply, because Apple knows that iPhones are commercially unviable without Netflix. Don’t accept the bullshit Apple offers for the App Store. It has always been about the…

It’s not just about objectionable content - it’s also about fraud.

Apps can be used for fraud in ways that video cannot.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#182

Post by lelandbatey » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:51 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #121

lelandbatey wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's true that almost all computers these days use "general purpose computer hardware" (x86/ARM CPU, GPU of some kind, fast RAM, slower disk, networking, etc), that's not the same thing as being a "general purpose device ". A quick search for the term "general purpose device" gives me definitions such as the following: Any computer-based device that accepts different applications. With this definition in mind,…

Like I said, arbitrary line drawing. The only reason you can't do photo editing on a switch is that Nintendo hasn't approved a photo editing app on its store. How is that really different than what Apple does?

I have no expectation of using the controllers of my Nintendo Switch to slowly and arduously type out an email. It features input devices made exclusively to be great at playing games. I cannot "daily drive" a Nintendo switch even if Nintendo allowed me sideload whatever apps I want, because all it has are game controllers. Because of this, while technically it contains general purpose hardware, practically it is a game machine.

On an iPhone, I do expect to be able to do general purpose tasks because it's input methods allow me to conveniently do those general purpose tasks.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#183

Post by yazaddaruvala » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:53 PM UTC

dessant wrote: post #95

valuearb wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you buy a device where much of the value it provides is derived from its walled garden, then complain about the walls around the garden?

People can have devices without explicitly choosing them, or understanding the consequences if they get to have a choice, and the rights of those people are needlessly restricted.

> are needlessly restricted.

Its equally correct to say, "the rights of those people are needfully restricted."

If people cannot choose their devices, or are miss-informed that is a big issue and should not be tolerated. Meanwhile, allowing Apple to build an amazing, curated customer experience for me is why I choose Apple's ecosystem for me and my family. I don't want my parents or future children getting misled into downloading malware, or berated by ads, or giving out their credit cards to an un-trusted application disguised as "verified by Apple".

The walled garden is a feature, with tradeoffs. Not different from my shower head or fridge making feature based tradeoffs. If you don't like the energy bills for your washing machine, suing or regulating the company to improve it isn't the right strategy. Just buy a different brand that matches your needs.

If you want sideloading on iOS (beyond what the web offers), buy an Android.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#184

Post by 654wak654 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

halfFact wrote: post #176

NorwegianDude wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck with web apps on iOS. Safari is a shitshow with more serious bugs than anything else I know of. You can report bugs, and maybe someone working on WebKit will look at it in 5 years, and maybe it will be fixed in 10 years. And then probably appear again in the next iOS version. Either Apple is incompetent, or they're making/keeping it bad on purpose.

Can't you install chrome?

All browsers on ios use the safari engine. Only thing chrome can do is sync your bookmarks.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#185

Post by RonanTheGrey » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:56 PM UTC

halfFact wrote: post #176

NorwegianDude wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck with web apps on iOS. Safari is a shitshow with more serious bugs than anything else I know of. You can report bugs, and maybe someone working on WebKit will look at it in 5 years, and maybe it will be fixed in 10 years. And then probably appear again in the next iOS version. Either Apple is incompetent, or they're making/keeping it bad on purpose.

Can't you install chrome?

All browsers on iOS use a Safari webview. iOS does not allow the installation of competing browser engines. So, no. It may be called chrome, it may look like chrome, but it is Safari, with all the limitations that implies (and a few extra limitations as a webview, just for good measure).

Apple does this on purpose to push people to use native apps, and then they lock down access to a market of 1 billion people to their whim of the day.

Edit: another poster pulled the trigger at the same time as me, will leave my comment for good measure.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#186

Post by madeofpalk » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

alerighi wrote: post #180

cblconfederate wrote: post #100

One thing missing from this discussion is: where is academia? The WWW was created inside academia, and it's because of that that it's still open and competitive. The internet itself was created in the military. Where is the equivalent for mobile apps? It's a problematic category that is wholly dominated by 2 actors, one of which isn't even interested in phones. We need a common set of standards for mobile development…

Why not use the web as the standard? I mean progressive web apps can do nearly everything that 95% of the apps do, they can present notifications, have a local persistent storage, there are even proposal to let them access bluetooth, USB and other hardware. But of course now Apple is trying to oppose PWA by imposing stupid limitations.

they just aren't good enough. even on android, with google supposedly being the patron saint of PWA, native apps just offer a better experience.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#187

Post by jrochkind1 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #160

jrochkind1 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most alarming part of this is actually the clear evidence that they use arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement of vague rules to actually enforce OTHER secret rules. In this case "no app recommendation engines", or more broadly "nothing that drives downloads". They didn't just say that. They pretended it was some other rule. Which means what people suspected is true -- they lie to you about the reason for your ap…

Imagine being led to believe you are breaking one rule, and you spent hours, days, weeks or even months as was suggested just to try to get your app back on the app store and continue your revenue stream, one which you may depend on for living, when they actually never intend to put your app back on the app store in the first place. They could be playing with people's livelihood in cases such as this.

Yep. They spent 2.5 months trying to do what Apple said, when it was all a lie and no matter what they did they weren't gonna be back in the store.

They could have shut down in a more orderly fashion with 2.5 more months of severance.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#188

Post by themihai » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 11:00 PM UTC

>> We didn't even have a web version of the product because we believed the web was dead

Well he deserved what he's got...like all the people pumping up dictators because they are "good" for a short period of time just to find out later they are not so good anymore and they have no way to change that.

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#189

Post by pbronez » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

mhafez17 wrote: post #71

surround wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask what your app was/did?

Our company was AppAdvice - we did iOS app recommendation. We were most popular for our detailed curated lists, and looping gameplay videos here: https://appadvice.com/game/collections Basically the idea was we helped you figure out which apps / games you would love and then link you directly to the official App Store to download it

I went to your site and found a new app I’m excited to try [0] in about 7 seconds!

Banning you guys from the AppStore is Apple’s loss. I’m glad to have found you now though.

[0] https://appadvice.com/tvgame/app/epic-orchestra/1063781546

Re: I fear App Review is getting too powerful (2015) [pdf]

#190

Post by msie » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 11:20 PM UTC

mhafez17 wrote: post #29

Wow. I am the author of this email. I have no idea how it resurfaced after 5 years, I was only made aware of this when a friend emailed me the HN link. The sad thing is it was not just my company which was targeted, but Apple removed this entire product category. We never knew the real reason why, or if it was bigger than just a random app reviewer trying to apply Apple policy, until May 2019. That's when Bloomberg i…

I am so curious about these executives and where they are now. They are destroying the Apple I love. Which reminds me of how the the Boeing acquisition of McDonnell-Douglas resulted in MD bean counters taking over the company resulting in the 737 Max mess.