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Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

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Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#181

Post by signal11 »

slongfield wrote: post #83
ecf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t Epic take a cut out of every single purchase made of a game built with Unreal Engine? Seems kinda hypocritical that they’re taking this stance when their licensing model is arguably just as burdensome on developers. In my opinion, Epic should not put their app on the App Store if they don’t like the terms, just as they would tell a developer to not use their engine if they don’t like the terms.

If a developer doesn't like Unreal's terms, there are other game engines. If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.

> If a developer doesn't like Apple's terms, there are no viable alternatives for iOS distribution.

Lots of opportunities for mobile distribution though. Apple is what, < 20% of the mobile market? (I know where you're coming from, but this is what Apple's legal team will say).

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#182

Post by greysphere »

ashtonkem wrote: post #67
mhh__ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly or not, Apple users (apple love lock in, moving to android is not trivial) are not treated particularly well.

"I don't like it" and "It's illegal" are not the same thing.

Everything that's illegal was first something someone didn't like.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#183

Post by valuearb »

dangoor wrote: post #131
wmf wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW brick and mortar stores usually take 40%.

Doesn't seem a fair comparison given the far more substantial costs of brick and mortar. Brick and mortar retailers do not, traditionally, have very large margins when all is said and done, whereas I think the App Store has quite significant margins for Apple.

Last I looked, Apples gross services margins were around 66%, which implies a break even for the store at a 10% fee.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#184

Post by xoxoy »

wmf wrote: post #106
xoxoy wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30% is extremely high by any reasonable standard for any marketplace

FWIW brick and mortar stores usually take 40%.

not sure what the brick and mortar equivalent is. what does that mean?

retailers pay suppliers some wholesale cost for their goods. doesn’t seem like an analogous situation to a marketplace that takes a fixed cut of every sale.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#185

Post by natchy »

rbecker wrote: post #23
epaga wrote: post #5

This is not surprising to me, and I have to say, I completely agree with it. Epic publicly and blatantly bypassed multiple App Store restrictions with their move today. Surely they were expecting this to happen, so what comes next? Perhaps Epic has been planning a major lawsuit and this will provide them with the reason to launch it? Edit: https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1293984290326433792 They have an entir…

> I completely agree with it. Epic publicly and blatantly bypassed multiple App Store restrictions with their move today. App Store policy is not law - its terms are unilaterally set by Apple. Citing it as justification makes no sense.

company policies are a funny thing.

I know of a business that had a policy that fired someone for missing work 3 times without notice. So... an employee missed work 5+ times and then got fired. That employee sued AND WON because the company didn't fire at 3, they waited until 5. If a company has a policy or ToS they need to enforce it.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#186

Post by giarc »

daveidol wrote: post #122
ecf wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are other Smartphone platforms with their own store, correct? I don’t know why people feel it’s their undeniable right to be able to provide an app to iOS users.

It's not an "undeniable right" but it's also not like there are a lot of other options. You can say "just move to another platform" or "then make your own platform" but you also have to be a realist. This is why antitrust laws exist - sometimes the market realities make this nearly impossible.

But where is the line of lots of options vs not a lot of options? iOS isn't even the most popular mobile operating system.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#187

Post by Sargos »

jdmoreira wrote: post #113

People will take sides in this and I think they will be missing the point. These are just 2 greedy corporations strong-arming each other and trying to win some hearts in the public space. Epic would do the same if they were in Apple's position and Apple would do the same if they were in Epic's position. This is just 21st century politics and it’s all about money.

This is a naive take on the situation. Sure they are both companies and looking to make money but this issue transcends both of them and is a core freedom of choice issue. As a society are we allowed to run software that we want or are we okay with being told which software is deemed acceptable for us? This question would be thorny if it even were a political issue but at this point it's literally a private corporation with no accountability unilaterally deciding what software is deemed worthy of use for a large portion of the entire world. That's dangerous and not at all a good place to be in.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#189

Post by paxys »

iamspoilt wrote: post #100

Question: How is Apple's 30% cut different from the transaction fees that are charged by Visa / Mastercard and payment processors like Stripe? I can see the big percentage but is the argument in favour of removing the entirety of the cut or reducing it down?

1. The percentage cut is a lot more in Apple's case (30% vs 2-3%).

2. (Directly resulting into 1) There is no competition for distributing apps on Apple devices. You cannot sideload or implement your own app store. You cannot use any other payment processor.

Re: Apple removes Fortnite from App Store after Epic attempts to bypass fees

#190

Post by calcifer »

moron4hire wrote: post #139
lfowles wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doesn’t Epic take a cut out of every single purchase made of a game built with Unreal Engine? Only those that make >$1mil lifetime gross.

Note that $1mil lifetime revenue is a very low boundary. A very small consulting operation of 2 or 3 people could easily hit that in a year or two. A single freelancer could probably hit it in 4 or 5 years. It's easy to read "a million dollars!" And think "we're rich!", but running any business has a lot of overhead.

The limit is $1 million per app. How many games make more than $1 million throughout their lifetime? 99% of developers won't ever have a game earning that much.
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