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Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

reuters.com

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Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#181

Post by knzhou »

nouveaux wrote: post #161
knzhou wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of comment that makes me know there's no hope for HN. The color of your skin has bought you a lot. When you were a kid, my parents were making a dollar a day. When your parents were kids, my grandparents were facing famine. Now, finally, for the first time in all of modern history, a large group of non-white people has escaped crushing poverty. They're not rich by any means. You'd still be richer tha…

As a Chinese person, I do not understand your reply. You're saying he is against impoverished people in China obtaining wealth but nowhere do I see him say that. Instead, he's saying he is afraid of the same oppression China is forcing on Hong Kong being forced on the rest of the world. https://www.businessinsider.com/nba-china-feud-timeline-dary... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzchung_controversy https://www.nyt…

All of these examples are pieces of entertainment being pulled because they offend Chinese sensibilities.

Here's the thing: pieces of entertainment are also pulled if they offend American sensibilities. In fact, American sensibilities have exclusively determined what is acceptable in big-budget entertainment for at least half a century. Crap like the Blitzchung affair just reflects this balance shifting to 99% America, 1% China.

Yes, China has the power to cancel one thing from time to time, but America constantly has the power to cancel everything. If a big-budget production isn't appealing to an American audience, it just doesn't get made, period. For example, when's the last time you saw a Chinese protagonist in a major film? Or even a single Chinese person who wasn't portrayed as a villain, a dope, or a sex toy?

In a world with equitable global development, influence would be proportional to population. America would have a 5% say, China 20%, Africa 20%, India 25%, and so on. So I'm not worried about the balance shifting towards that.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#182

Post by ardy42 »

indigo945 wrote: post #135
lifeformed wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1956, the CPC "encouraged citizens to express openly their opinions of the communist regime" and then "after this brief period of liberalization, ... those who were critical of the regime and its ideology ... were rounded up in waves by the hundred of thousands, publicly criticized, and condemned to prison camps for re-education through labor, or even execution." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campa…

In popular Western tellings of this piece of history, it's usually portrayed as a comic book evil conspiracy by the Chinese government. In actuality, it probably reflects an internal power struggle within the party at the time, where some politicians (among them Mao Zedong) were interested in a process of democratization, whereas others feared for their positions. The fact that a lot of the criticism that was made by…

>> In 1956, the CPC "encouraged citizens to express openly their opinions of the communist regime" and then "after this brief period of liberalization, ... those who were critical of the regime and its ideology ... were rounded up in waves by the hundred of thousands, publicly criticized, and condemned to prison camps for re-education through labor, or even execution."

>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign

> The fact that a lot of the criticism that was made by the citizens was considerably more fundamental than even Mao had expected eventually eroded Mao's position to the point where he was forced to back down.

IIRC, Mao expected the policy to bolster the regime and show how the people genuinely supported it. That didn't happen. Since the goal wasn't to actually let the people express alternative views, they cracked down hard.

I agree it probably wasn't "comic book evil conspiracy," but it's still a good illustration of how risky CCP offers of freedom of speech are.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#183

Post by [deleted] »

88840-8855 wrote: post #122

This is going to be very unpopular. History repeats itself. Just 30 years ago the Soviet Union was dissolved. If you study this dissolution process, you see that demonstrations and the ambition to sovereignty was nothing new in the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, but in comparison to the 50s, 60s and 70s, Gorbachev did not use military force to prevent countries from splitting off. If China lets HK go independent,…

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#186

Post by asimpletune »

simonh wrote: post #150
throwaway-semi wrote: post #36

Why are we empowering this regime? Shouldn't we force companies like Apple to make a statement of why they manufacture their goods in China? Apple is happy make a statement about BLM - it is cheap, doesn't cost them anything. But when it comes to things that actually harm profits and challenge shareholder responsibilities, they stay mum. We need to force Apple (and other giant corporations) to speak up about atrociti…

If it is immoral for Apple to do business in China, then why is it moral for Mr. Lai or anyone in Hong Kong to do business in China? This smacks as a pretty partisan double standard, and I have to wonder what you have against Apple that you would single them out in this way. Hong Kong and people like Mr. Lai has always done business in China and there's nothing reprehensible about that, nor is it reprehensible for an…

I, for one, would like the down voters to address the merit of the commentators argument, if it’s not too much trouble.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#187

Post by chvid »

themgt wrote: post #91

I highly recommend doing some reading about what Xi and the CCP are really thinking and planning. It's a fascinating situation, and I'm not sure we or even they precisely know. But there has been a feel of a very dark turn overall in recent years, where perhaps an alignment between an appearance of widespread and growing failures of the US-led world order combined with China's unabated growing power, has cemented in…

What is the dystopian logic here?

That the us led world order eventually will collapse due to global inequality is pretty standard thought in communist thinking.

And of course China sees itself as a more just society with basis in the worker rather than the capital holder.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#188

Post by threeseed »

fqye wrote: post #156

When it comes to politics, HN is similar to Reddit. People just comment by emotion and ideology, because they could feel the satisfaction by chanting the beautiful words of democracy and freedom, without burden of insightgul knowledge of history and culture of other people and countries. Some here even wanted to start a war with China in the name of human rights. Remember crusades in the name of Christian? Most peopl…

Last year you posted, "HK protect started peacefully now turned into riot with no clear political purpose".

Do you now understand why those riots were important ? Because the National Security laws are being used to crackdown on dissent exactly as the HK protestors predicted.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#189

Post by ardy42 »

actuator wrote: post #26
ivalm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully not forever, I do believe in change for the better, but for now CCP is an evil force of repression.

I really don't see any change that can realistically take roots there. We have seen harsh sanctions fail to bring changes in a small poor country like NK where anyone looking South must be amazed at where they could have been. In case of PRC, forget a kinetic physical action. Their economy is so interconnected with every other major economy that no one can afford even actual sanctions.

> In case of PRC, forget a kinetic physical action. Their economy is so interconnected with every other major economy that no one can afford even actual sanctions.

Not suddenly, but every other major economy could probably afford a gradual distancing that ends up in more-or-less the same place.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#190

Post by threeseed »

onion2k wrote: post #178
MattGaiser wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Apple moving to India? https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/08/03/six-apple-product... I suspect that Apple is moving away from China, but the reality is that doing so takes time.

That article actually states "Apple manufacturing partners" are opening factories in India. In other words, Apple are continuing to work with Chinese companies, and the Chinese companies are extending their reach outside of China. In no way is that Apple moving away from China.

Most of those partners are actually Taiwanese.

And Apple is simply hedging their bets like any responsible company would be doing in this situation. So some manufacturing capability will be moving to India et al but obviously not all and not in the short term.

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