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Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

theintercept.com

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Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#181

Post by ComputerGuru »

dylan604 wrote: post #133
sbierwagen wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don't bring a cell phone to a protest?

Then again, what would happen to a protestor that actually protested in a non-violent manner? Let's specify in the US as I can only guess it would be much more dangerous to protest in a country without a protected constitutional right to do so. So a US citizen brings their cell phone to a protest, non-violently marches with their signs, sings some songs, yells some, gets dispersed in a violent manner and/or gets arre…

Their name goes in a file and they get added to various lists. Depending on which list you are on (and who else was at the protest) you will be eligible for further scrutiny. (Remember, everyone breaks dozens of laws a day, as none are meant to be enforced 100%.) Depending again on which lists you wind up on, you may find yourself unable to fly, ineligible for pre check, blocked from a government contract, failing an fbi background check, the target of yellow journalism, victim of police harassment, always missing flights due to random checks, or always being greeted by an entourage of your own at points of arrival. Have fun!

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#182

Post by ComputerGuru »

extrapickles wrote: post #90
alain94040 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this possible?

You can use a non-linear junction detector, and triangulate on the signal it forces the target radio to give off. They are not very selective, so it’s easier to track when there are very few radios in the area under illumination. The easier way is to compromise the phone and have it pretend to be off.

Those don't pick up just radios, they pick up any transistor.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#183

Post by boomboomsubban »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #171
boomboomsubban wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Legality is, in general, a matter of fact. The legality or constitutionality of a matter is determined in the courts This makes absolutely no sense. If it is a matter of fact, it should be independently provable not require courts to decide. Legality is supposed to be the public's opinion of the morality of an action, but in reality it is the ruling class' opinion of how the action impacts them. An employee knowingl…

> Legality is supposed to be the public's opinion of the morality of an action Does that mean that all legal acts are also moral?

Individuals morals differ, but ideally most people should view legal acts as moral acts. As I said, actual legality does not function like that.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#184

Post by ComputerGuru »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #116
notyourday wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you can physically disconnect the battery, your phone may not actually be fully off. For example, on my Android phone should I drain the battery into oblivion ( let the phone die ) and let it sit for about a week in that state, takes about 90 seconds to become fully functional to the lock screen from the moment it is plugged into a charger. On the other hand if I do hard power off of a phone followed by poweri…

I had assumed phone hardware generally won't power on until the battery has charged to 5% or so, ostensibly to prevent power drops. Not sure which idea is more accurate without a mobile electronics engineer chiming in.

That is correct. The phone waits until it has enough power to ensure it won't die during startup because a lot of modern phones (and ultralight laptops) require tapping into battery reserves because the direct pathway from the wall wart to the device was not designed to provide sufficient power to operate at full speed/capacity for more than a brief turbo boost and startup requires more than that.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#185

Post by ComputerGuru »

thimkerbell wrote: post #161
throwaway_drt2 wrote: post #49

I used to work for DRT, they make the "dirtbox" mentioned in the article. I would really encourage journalists to dig more into this company and their products.

Can these do MITM attacks that inject content into what you are reading?

Not when accessing https resources but the safe answer is yes otherwise. Unless your phone is infected, of course. Baseband isn't as confined as you think.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#186

Post by boomboomsubban »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #178
boomboomsubban wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Legality is, in general, a matter of fact. The legality or constitutionality of a matter is determined in the courts This makes absolutely no sense. If it is a matter of fact, it should be independently provable not require courts to decide. Legality is supposed to be the public's opinion of the morality of an action, but in reality it is the ruling class' opinion of how the action impacts them. An employee knowingl…

> This makes absolutely no sense. If it is a matter of fact, it should be independently provable not require courts to decide. It makes plenty of sense once you realize that it's a fact that if a court decides something is illegal, the government may use its monopoly of force to enforce it. Don't confuse scientific fact with legal fact. Also don't confuse legal fact with a court's opinion as to whether the law was ac…

Supreme Court decisions come with majority and minority opinions because these things are clearly not facts. The government arbitrarily uses it's monopoly on force to entrench itself, leaving these "facts" to differ over time or by case.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#187

Post by fulafel »

Spooky23 wrote: post #177
fulafel wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could but they don't, and it's been known all along that these downgrade attacks are devastating to security and very practical. Complicity?

Nah. People use legacy devices for a long time. The 2G modem installed in 2006 to control a highway sign works just fine, and won’t get touched until they turn it off.

the thing being questioned was behaviour of new phones.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#188

Post by notyourday »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #184
mixmastamyk wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had assumed phone hardware generally won't power on until the battery has charged to 5% or so, ostensibly to prevent power drops. Not sure which idea is more accurate without a mobile electronics engineer chiming in.

That is correct. The phone waits until it has enough power to ensure it won't die during startup because a lot of modern phones (and ultralight laptops) require tapping into battery reserves because the direct pathway from the wall wart to the device was not designed to provide sufficient power to operate at full speed/capacity for more than a brief turbo boost and startup requires more than that.

Battery charges "enough" to that point in less than a minute? I find it hard to believe. 4-5 minutes? Absolutely. 50 seconds?

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#189

Post by upofadown »

sschueller wrote: post #118
AftHurrahWinch wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Portland hundreds of demonstrators used the mesh-networking app Bridgefy, and some affinity groups used goTennas which even served streaming movies, music, and documentaries that spoke to the revolutionary tenor.

How does bridgefy make money? It's not open source. The website leads to a level 3 default page. How do you know the feds don't own it?

In general, it is best to assume that the feds own everything and work from there.

Re: Stingrays and Dirtboxes: how cops can secretly track your phone

#190

Post by 7ArcticSealz »

jccc wrote: post #63
kome wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for walking away. I hope more people will follow your example and question their work. Not only at Harris Corporation, but in every part of what is called surveillance capitalism.

Is it enough that a few people like this simply turn their backs and walk away to different work? I would think their vacancies would be quickly and easily filled. Is there really a shortage of people willing and able to do this kind of work for these companies and government agencies? I'm asking because I truly don't know. And if not, could we think of some other ways people in these positions could exert some influ…

There's a saying in showbiz that applies equally well to job vacancies: "there's an a*s for every seat"
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