Thomas Sowell interview • Hacker News Board

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#181

Post by ergodicity001 » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

claudiawerner wrote: post #14

vixen99 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be interesting to see where you think he's wrong especially where his arguments are based on some uncompromising statistical facts.

It's not that I disagree with his use of statistics, but my own philosophical framework (particularly inspired by the ideas of J.E. Roemer, Gerry Cohen, Nitzan & Bichler, and more recently Roberto Veneziani) sees serious problems (I think exploitation, domination, alienation, and insufficient focus on capabilities qua equality of opportunity) with not only capital in general but the state too. I can't easily recall t…

What do you think of Nassim Nicholas Taleb's claim that Piketty basically has his math all wrong?

https://medium.com/incerto/inequality-and-skin-in-the-game-d...

>>with not only capital in general but the state too

Why should capital in general be a problem? Isn't it crony capitalism the actual problem? If you are very rich, that isn't usually a problem to your neighbor. But if you are very rich and can thus get away with tax evasion but your neighbor lands in jail for the same reason, isn't that when it actually becomes a problem?

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#182

Post by Barrin92 » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

rukittenme wrote: post #170

Barrin92 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because they can hold him up as an unbiased intellectual despite the fact that most of the opinions that he voices are trite, and honestly just sound like talk radio. I mean, just go through a few of his statements: " Instead of trying to propagandize children to hug trees and recycle garbage, our schools would be put to better use teaching them how to analyze and test what is said by people who advocate tree-hugging…

> "Instead of trying to propagandize children to hug trees and recycle garbage, our schools would be put to better use teaching them how to analyze and test what is said by people who advocate tree-hugging, recycling, and innumerable other causes across the political spectrum." Advocating for critical thinking is not bad. You shouldn't tell children what to believe. You should give them the tools to determine their o…

Strawmanning the education systems by ranting about tree-hugging hippies who indoctrinate the children and calling taxation theft isn't critical thinking, it's living in the bizarro world that is modern American conservatism.

His views also aren't non-conformist at all, they have a deep history in US politics. Friedman, Hayek, and so on for a large time during Sowells career practically dominated public discourse. Friedman alone probably is the single most influential economist of the last few decades as far as public discourse is concerned.

And that is squarely where Sowell is situated given that he hasn't ever actually worked as an economist, but basically as a pundit. Within American conservative punditry his views are as standard as it gets.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#183

Post by steve76 » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

jahaja wrote: post #77

schemy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the FBI director sent him a letter to kill himself or have his affairs exposed.

Having "affairs" doesn't make someone a creep, and certainly doesn't deserve even the slightest mention when assessing the man.

[dead]

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#184

Post by john-shaffer » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #125

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think Sowell is a very important thinker in his own right. At the same time, there is nothing conservatives love more than a black intellectual who strongly agrees with them. Perhaps for both good and bad reasons. That adoration does color the perception of people like Sowell.

Your perception of Sowell is colored because he's a black intellectual? That sounds pretty damn racist.

How about not judging black people when they don't fit in the box you want to put them in?

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#185

Post by pas » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #143

mc32 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish other writers would take this to heart. Reading The New Yorker it’s as if their language is a shibboleth and if they didn’t use it, it would alienate their audience for using average language, yet they are the same people who pontificate and pretend they advocate for the lower classes.

I can understand this point of view but the point of elevated language and academic jargon is to allow for a more accurate and nuanced discussion without having to re-state assumptions and underlying principles. It's often not done well or used to obfuscate ideas, but the core principle has merit.

Yes, but. Somewhere along the way science, research, the topics science "concerns itself with" and everything suddenly exploded over the last hundred or so years, and especially since we have this thing called the Internet the number of published papers, science journalism and journals grown exponentially.

One one hand, it's great. More science/research is being done, but on the other hand it becomes less and less accessible due to the extreme specificity, very narrow scopes and due to simply being on the very edge of human knowledge accumulation.

And of course, theoretically whatever paper one is reading one can "simply" follow the references and look up the introduced technical terms. Occasionally there are great survey papers that take a look at a (sub-sub-sub-)field, and again from time to time there are amazing science communicators that allow laypeople to have some kind of real grasp on these questions and topics.

Yet, I think, it's clear that publishing terse PDFs is not the best way to communicate research and results.

And we know, we - as in DARPA, but anyway, as in civilization - did a trial, and it's very enlightening: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00672-7

And one of the big finding is that being stubbornly terse is bad.

And it's just a step, that this trial did not check, but maybe requiring researchers to spend a few days of their precious time to write a few pages about what they are actually doing, introduce the terms, techniques, methods, wouldn't be that bad, maybe even it would be helpful ... and this is basically pre-registration, and this is basically the grant proposal. And it'd be double-plus-good to link all of these in an open and really accessible manner in those fancy PDFs. (Or better yet, just use a HTML site. LaTeX is nice, but.)

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#186

Post by Shraal » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

Am I the only one here who thinks that "Basic Economics" is overrated? I loved the first chapters but I didn't finish it because of his obvious bias against regulations. While I enjoyed his analyses of failed regulations, the book makes it seem like there're no successful market regulation laws in place and every attempt is doomed to be short-sighted like all his examples. This [1] review on Amazon from someone else expresses my concerns in more detail.

Can someone recommend me an alternative book, that at least tries to be a little bit more well-balanced? I'll probably finish this book for the conservative perspective anyway but it doesn't seem like a good starting point despite its name.

[1] https://www.amazon.de/gp/customer-reviews/RTG2TIDQB6AJI/ref=...

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#187

Post by pas » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #67

mc32 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish other writers would take this to heart. Reading The New Yorker it’s as if their language is a shibboleth and if they didn’t use it, it would alienate their audience for using average language, yet they are the same people who pontificate and pretend they advocate for the lower classes.

The New Yorker is an upper-middle class publication. That is its target audience. Other magazines owned by the same media conglomerate, Conde Nast, are broadly similar in orientation: Vogue, Bon Appetit, Vanity Fair, GQ, Architectural Digest. I don't think they 'advocate for the lower classes', subjectively or objectively. I read very few socialists and communists in the New Yorker!

Do socialists/communists really advocate for the lower classes?

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#188

Post by rukittenme » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #182

rukittenme wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Instead of trying to propagandize children to hug trees and recycle garbage, our schools would be put to better use teaching them how to analyze and test what is said by people who advocate tree-hugging, recycling, and innumerable other causes across the political spectrum." Advocating for critical thinking is not bad. You shouldn't tell children what to believe. You should give them the tools to determine their o…

Strawmanning the education systems by ranting about tree-hugging hippies who indoctrinate the children and calling taxation theft isn't critical thinking, it's living in the bizarro world that is modern American conservatism. His views also aren't non-conformist at all, they have a deep history in US politics. Friedman, Hayek, and so on for a large time during Sowells career practically dominated public discourse. Fr…

> Strawmanning the education system

Maybe he is. If that's the case, let's "steelman" his position and do better. Do you feel that Thomas Sowell would read your response and feel you grasped the argument he was making to the fullest extent? Do you feel you've honestly and accurately portrayed his position after understanding it fully?

In my opinion, you haven't. I think you're upset and its preventing you from understanding the argument being made.

> Sowell hasn't done economic research at all.

He has a wikipedia. Try your best to read it.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#189

Post by viburnum » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

Is there anything new in Sowell? I thought he was a popularizer of traditional free-market economics.

Re: Thomas Sowell interview

#190

Post by pas » Mon, Aug 03, 2020, 3:37 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #51

kypro wrote: post #37

Thomas Sowell has had a huge impact on me and my views on economics. I'm from a poor working-class background and am often irritated by the needless language barriers of academics. > “Too many academics write as if plain English is beneath their dignity,” Sowell once said, “and some seem to regard logic as an unconstitutional infringement of their freedom of speech.” Sowell is unique in this respect. He's book, "Basi…

I wish other writers would take this to heart. Reading The New Yorker it’s as if their language is a shibboleth and if they didn’t use it, it would alienate their audience for using average language, yet they are the same people who pontificate and pretend they advocate for the lower classes.

It's not just the vocabulary, but the structure, the whole style. It's long, it's very meandering, it's very illustrative, but rarely direct and informative. Not many people have the time and desire to read something that presents so little value to them.