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Comcast, Mozilla strike privacy deal to encrypt DNS lookups in Firefox

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Re: Comcast, Mozilla strike privacy deal to encrypt DNS lookups in Firefox

#181

Post by sergeykish »

nimbius wrote: post #112
jlgaddis wrote: post #46

Let me make sure I've got this right: * Comcast sniffs / records / tracks their user's DNS traffic * Mozilla announced they would enable DoH by default, to protect end user's DNS data from shady ISPs like Comcast * Comcast then raised hell about Mozilla's decision (presumably because they would no longer have access to this data) * Now, Comcast and Mozilla come to some sort of agreement which effectively restores Com…

welp, thats it lads. DoH was a fun experiment until Mozilla decided to let the fox back into the henhouse. You can be damn sure "the foundation" got a nice fat cheque for their hard work letting predatory surveillance capitalism continue unfettered.

s/foundation/corporation/

Re: Comcast, Mozilla strike privacy deal to encrypt DNS lookups in Firefox

#182

Post by sneak »

jlgaddis wrote: post #46

Let me make sure I've got this right: * Comcast sniffs / records / tracks their user's DNS traffic * Mozilla announced they would enable DoH by default, to protect end user's DNS data from shady ISPs like Comcast * Comcast then raised hell about Mozilla's decision (presumably because they would no longer have access to this data) * Now, Comcast and Mozilla come to some sort of agreement which effectively restores Com…

Mozilla has been untrustworthy from a privacy angle since the day they instituted silent spyware in the form of telemetry into their browser.

If I’m going to use a spyware browser, I may as well use Chrome, because it’s way more secure thanks to Google’s industry-leading security team.

Re: Comcast, Mozilla strike privacy deal to encrypt DNS lookups in Firefox

#183

Post by MaxBarraclough »

detaro wrote: post #78
jlgaddis wrote: post #46

Let me make sure I've got this right: * Comcast sniffs / records / tracks their user's DNS traffic * Mozilla announced they would enable DoH by default, to protect end user's DNS data from shady ISPs like Comcast * Comcast then raised hell about Mozilla's decision (presumably because they would no longer have access to this data) * Now, Comcast and Mozilla come to some sort of agreement which effectively restores Com…

Also: People don't want Mozilla to send all DoH traffic to one company, so Mozilla has set a list of things they require a company to do so that they'll use their DoH servers automatically. Apparently, Comcast has agreed to said list. (We'll have to see if details on oversight and enforcement are published)

> People don't want Mozilla to send all DoH traffic to one company

Good point, CloudFlare have earned a good reputation, but a monoculture is still something to avoid.

Who would be your ideal DNS provider? Perhaps someone like the EFF? FSF? Mozilla themselves?

Re: Comcast, Mozilla strike privacy deal to encrypt DNS lookups in Firefox

#184

Post by MaxBarraclough »

Santosh83 wrote: post #160
shirro wrote: post #134

Tin foil hat time but I can't help feeling a lot of things promoted as privacy solutions like VPNs and DoH are just aggregating data in a handful of locations so it is easier to intercept. Sure they have privacy policies but are they worth the paper they are written on when state actors are bound by a totally different set of rules? I recently changed my local dnssec resolver to forward to quad9 and cloudflare using…

Indeed. As it stands, trust is merely being shifted from one set of parties (ISPs) to another set (big DNS/CDN providers). Apparently that's attractive enough to a lot of people who prefer to send their queries to a foreign company than to their own ISP, but has it changed anything fundamental?

The hope is that it's a change away from an untrustworthy provider, toward a trusted provider. Not sure if it counts as being a fundamental change, but it seems worth doing.

Re: Comcast, Mozilla strike privacy deal to encrypt DNS lookups in Firefox

#185

Post by gsich »

detaro wrote: post #78
jlgaddis wrote: post #46

Let me make sure I've got this right: * Comcast sniffs / records / tracks their user's DNS traffic * Mozilla announced they would enable DoH by default, to protect end user's DNS data from shady ISPs like Comcast * Comcast then raised hell about Mozilla's decision (presumably because they would no longer have access to this data) * Now, Comcast and Mozilla come to some sort of agreement which effectively restores Com…

Also: People don't want Mozilla to send all DoH traffic to one company, so Mozilla has set a list of things they require a company to do so that they'll use their DoH servers automatically. Apparently, Comcast has agreed to said list. (We'll have to see if details on oversight and enforcement are published)

The browser is not the place for configuring DNS settings.

Re: Comcast, Mozilla strike privacy deal to encrypt DNS lookups in Firefox

#186

Post by MaxBarraclough »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #163

Everyone is complaining: - No DOH: "DNS is trivial to snoop" - DOH with Cloudflair: "DNS is not longer distributed" - DOH with ISPs: "Great, the ISPs get the data again" Well, guess what? With the current changes we get rid of the arbitrary snooper problem while preserving DNS as a distributed service: not bad, not amazing, but strictly better than before this all began! Of course ISPs are sketch, and Comcast in part…

> Actual anatomized and distributed DNS querying would require vastly different technology that anything being proposed in these comments.

I hope the everything should be solved with blockchain! crowd don't get any ideas.

Re: Comcast, Mozilla strike privacy deal to encrypt DNS lookups in Firefox

#187

Post by smichel17 »

pwdisswordfish2 wrote: post #114
roblabla wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With all due respect, I have personally had contracts with Comcast in the past and have experienced firsthand how well they honor those -- and I am certainly not the only one! Consumer contracts? Because Mozilla having a business contract with Comcast is certainly not the same as you having a consumer contract - Mozilla has the resources to drag Comcast to court should they be found to ignore the agreement.

When pigs fly! Can you imagine Mozilla CEO depleting her own compensation in order to sue a company the size of Comcast? What exactly are the claimed damages in this hypothetical lawsuit? The damages to Mozilla are _____ ? (This PR piece in Ars suggests the deal is solely to protect users. No financial details.) How about the damages suffered by users? (Whoops, they are not parties to the agreement.) Quite the vivid…

Hypothetically, I imagine they'd sue for damage to their brand. Mozilla has been pushing Firefox as the privacy browser, and if Comcast were to break the deal it would hurt users' trust in Mozilla. I agree it is unclear what the consideration from each party is, though.

Re: Comcast, Mozilla strike privacy deal to encrypt DNS lookups in Firefox

#188

Post by zenexer »

boopmaster wrote: post #172
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is entirely possible for one group (or incentive) within Comcast's organization to work towards that goal, and another group or incentive within Comcast to work against it. Some things that make me trust this claim: - That privacy policy - That contract - Association with trustworthy brands like Mozilla - Work on encrypted DNS - Consumer trust could theoretically be financially valuable to them - Basic morals of C…

I am a Comcast employee myself, but these opinions are my own: I appreciate your comment as you clearly and accurately frame that good people work there, Comcast earned its reputation with its actions, and that there may be competing interests / morals at play. I can’t predict the future to say what wins out, but I feel like there are competing interests at play internal to the org. There are the business/markets, an…

> an aside: I am somewhat disappointed to see a HN thread so populated with groupthink “Comcast is bad!” I’d expect that on theVerge comment board or YouTube comments. sigh

Is this really surprising? You do go on to acknowledge the “public resentment.” In the tech industry—HN’s specialty—Comcast certainly seems to be widely regarded as an evil beast with no conscience.

That’s an entirely anecdotal observation, but many of the comments in this HN thread are not: they frequently link to evidence, while Comcast employees chime in to say, “internally, it’s not like that anymore.” It’s great to hear that’s what it looks like on the inside, but given Comcast’s history and HN’s general skepticism, that’s going to be a hard sell without solid evidence.

Re: Comcast, Mozilla strike privacy deal to encrypt DNS lookups in Firefox

#189

Post by rwha »

Paul-ish wrote: post #60
jlivingood wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Comcast sniffs / records / tracks their user's DNS traffic Actually not only does Comcast say they don't do that ( https://www.xfinity.com/privacy/policy/dns ) but now has signed a contract to this effect as well, thereby meeting the same level of commitment as the other TRR operators. This means IMO that Mozilla is doing a good job leading the industry on DNS privacy and convincing many of the merits of a strong p…

If Comcast sells DNS data now, they open themselves up to penalties from the both FTC and Mozilla. FTC because they enforce privacy policies, and Mozilla because of the contract they have. I would say this Mozilla changing the overall ecosystem for the better.

I imagine Comcast would not sell DNS data; far better to simply use it internally with, for example:

- NBC

- Telemundo

- USA Network

- SyFy

- Universal Pictures

- Sky Group

Re: Comcast, Mozilla strike privacy deal to encrypt DNS lookups in Firefox

#190

Post by muizelaar »

partdavid wrote: post #173
muizelaar wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla took Verizon to court.

Link? When was this? I'm only aware of Verizon suing Mozilla in 2017.

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/12/05/mozilla-files-cross...
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