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Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

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Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#181
post #49

Guys, guys, it's fine. According to everybody on HN who's so eagerly embraced Zoom and continued to use it even after the security issues, the only thing that matters is that Zoom is the best UX experience for video conferencing. Forget about the human rights, suppression of free speech or the fact that the company is wholly subservient to the CCP (not like anybody could've ever foreseen anything like this ever happe…

If the alternatives were that better why will a chinese activist not use them?

Zoom is simply easy to use. I have tried all... Use Teams and SFB at work

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#182
post #165

I feel like the good faith presumption for this company has to have shifted by now. Is there any reason not to assume that the Chinese government is surveilling Zoom calls en masse? Documenting participants (face, voice, language, location, etc.), recording content, etc. We're talking about the data of 200M+ users. I see people on HN defending Zoom all the time. >The company has acknowledged that much of its product…

> Zoom CEO Eric Yuan said in early June that the company has chosen not to encrypt free calls in order to cooperate with law enforcement. This is incorrect. They don't offer end-to-end encryption, but it is encrypted between each client and the Zoom servers, and they have promised there's no way for a Zoom employee to spy on a conversation without visibly joining the meeting. https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/126…

So that statement is correct, you just confirmed it yourself.

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#183
post #165

I feel like the good faith presumption for this company has to have shifted by now. Is there any reason not to assume that the Chinese government is surveilling Zoom calls en masse? Documenting participants (face, voice, language, location, etc.), recording content, etc. We're talking about the data of 200M+ users. I see people on HN defending Zoom all the time. >The company has acknowledged that much of its product…

> Zoom CEO Eric Yuan said in early June that the company has chosen not to encrypt free calls in order to cooperate with law enforcement. This is incorrect. They don't offer end-to-end encryption, but it is encrypted between each client and the Zoom servers, and they have promised there's no way for a Zoom employee to spy on a conversation without visibly joining the meeting. https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/126…

Encrypted = private to most people. There’s no reason to muddy the waters with the fact that Zoom encrypts some data temporarily at some time with keys that they control, because that isn’t what anyone cares about.

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#184

I feel like the good faith presumption for this company has to have shifted by now. Is there any reason not to assume that the Chinese government is surveilling Zoom calls en masse? Documenting participants (face, voice, language, location, etc.), recording content, etc. We're talking about the data of 200M+ users. I see people on HN defending Zoom all the time. >The company has acknowledged that much of its product…

That's it, dumping Zoom, not going to be surveilled by Chinese authoroties - - not going to support a company that practices censorship.

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#185
post #165

I feel like the good faith presumption for this company has to have shifted by now. Is there any reason not to assume that the Chinese government is surveilling Zoom calls en masse? Documenting participants (face, voice, language, location, etc.), recording content, etc. We're talking about the data of 200M+ users. I see people on HN defending Zoom all the time. >The company has acknowledged that much of its product…

> Zoom CEO Eric Yuan said in early June that the company has chosen not to encrypt free calls in order to cooperate with law enforcement. This is incorrect. They don't offer end-to-end encryption, but it is encrypted between each client and the Zoom servers, and they have promised there's no way for a Zoom employee to spy on a conversation without visibly joining the meeting. https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/126…

> This is incorrect. They don't offer end-to-end encryption

It's all about end-to-end encryption, so it's correct. If they decrypt it anywhere on the way then three letter agencies can always listen to what you say with a proper letter.

> and they have promised

Are you serious?

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#186
post #165

I feel like the good faith presumption for this company has to have shifted by now. Is there any reason not to assume that the Chinese government is surveilling Zoom calls en masse? Documenting participants (face, voice, language, location, etc.), recording content, etc. We're talking about the data of 200M+ users. I see people on HN defending Zoom all the time. >The company has acknowledged that much of its product…

> Zoom CEO Eric Yuan said in early June that the company has chosen not to encrypt free calls in order to cooperate with law enforcement. This is incorrect. They don't offer end-to-end encryption, but it is encrypted between each client and the Zoom servers, and they have promised there's no way for a Zoom employee to spy on a conversation without visibly joining the meeting. https://twitter.com/alexstamos/status/126…

A promise is a promise. The "no way to spy" is likely just compliance. A lot of companies have compliance guarantees in place, like SOC2, which is about processes and documentation/audit trail. So the thing blocking you from reading customer data is another person in the organization having to confirm it's a legitimate action.

Government level surveillance is not the same as an employee listening in on a whim. It's an organized endeavor, which comes with a process, so it may as well be ok from compliance point of view.

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#187
This is REAL! Here are more details shared by Humanitarian China with links to the video recordings and the photos of Zoom blockage.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12DM3ccTe70yzqCDPu9uXlCD7...

If Zoom cannot comment on this incident. a) Either issue an apology and revert the stance. OR b) Or Explain why it was done

Its usage needs to be met with serious skepticism.

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#188

Only last week, it was announced by Zoom's CEO that free accounts are unencrypted, to enable law enforcement agencies. Now we read that PAID accounts are suspended for their contents. Hence, the encryption is obviously a farce.

> Only last week, it was announced by Zoom's CEO that free accounts are unencrypted, to enable law enforcement agencies. I missed that one, do you have a source?

The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/3/21279355/zoom-end-encrypti...

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#189

Aiding in the Chinese media's censorship is not good for China nor the world. When a government destroys the ability for it to be criticized it becomes untethered from consensus reality; megalomaniacs can take the reins and a kind of national hubris forms that can lead to devastating conflict and oppression. All governments need open dissent and criticism to keep from going down this path. Zoom should not be aiding a…

You're not considering the real and terrifying strengths that dictatorship has over democracy. In true democracies the politicians never undertake a plan that lasts longer than one election term because they have no incentive to do so. In China they feel free to undertake 20 year plans with large upfront investments because the party does not care about winning an election every 2-4 years. Why do you automatically as…

There are advantages to the efficiency of authoritarian power, but how do they handle peaceful transition of power? How do they handle abuse?

A lot of democratic stability comes from it being hard to change things quickly, separation of power, and the existence of a lot free speech so it's hard to cover things up. Ultimately, with a dependence on the people.

I could be persuaded that there are better ways to structure things within that, if a lot of thought was put into how to handle a tyrant's rise and how to handle a transition of power. I probably could not be persuaded that limits on speech and government censorship are good long-term for the health of a society that I'd want to actually live in. I think it's a good thing for governments to ultimately be accountable to their people.

I generally agree with the sentiment that elected leaders fear getting voted out, while dictators fear getting dragged out. The ability to vote seems important for long term stability.

In China's case, it seems they've done away with terms entirely for Xi. Speech and dissent is tightly (and violently) controlled, and even when there's just potential for future dissent, entire groups are put into camps to destroy their culture to supposedly reduce that risk.

The west has problems too, but there's a reason people emmigrate out to countries that are more free when they're allowed to.

Enormous economic growth and strategic planning have allowed their people to accept this abuse for now, though the party should be worried if that ever changes.

Re: Zoom closes account of U.S.-based Chinese activist after Tiananmen event

#190

Aiding in the Chinese media's censorship is not good for China nor the world. When a government destroys the ability for it to be criticized it becomes untethered from consensus reality; megalomaniacs can take the reins and a kind of national hubris forms that can lead to devastating conflict and oppression. All governments need open dissent and criticism to keep from going down this path. Zoom should not be aiding a…

Communists don't think that political dialogue exists as a genuine process between rational actors. They think that people's political beliefs are a product of their environment and class. This is why they don't like free speech and don't like debates. They think that schools are only capable of indoctrination. Therefore they seek to turn this indoctrination in favor of the workers rather than the bourgeoisie. Edit:…

Why is this being downvoted?

It’s a pretty accurate summary of Marxist beliefs.

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