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Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

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Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#181

Post by vikramkr »

ramshorns wrote: post #178
vikramkr wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some industries where the software is doing something mission critical, it's important to have complete control over the software and even more importantly, you need someone to sue

Is the importance of having complete control over the software an argument against using free software? Surely the best way to have control over it is to be able to read what it does and make it do what you want.

You'll be dealing with multiple contributors making changes if you want to upgrade to the latest version, with pull requests from all over the place. Nobody has time to read the entire codebase, so you have to audit and qualify all the random open source contributors instead of just the one group writing the code. You could start with a FLOSS codebase and then just keep any additions/modifications you make proprietary/not ever upgrade, try to fix security patches and things yourself. But that can become difficult, and if you find yourself actually tapping into the benefits of open source to be able to benefit from the collaborative work of thousands of coders, you're stuck having to trust lots of random people again. An old school finance firm could use R or Python, but a lot of them use SAS because you only have to qualify one provider, and if something goes wrong, you can sue them. You dont need to have programmers on staff to evaluate the codebase, you just need programmers that can use SAS. Newer forms and firms in less regulated industries are more comfortable breaking away from these to get the competive advantage of better tools, but it's not for everyone.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#182

Post by brodouevencode »

vhakulinen wrote: post #133
nanna wrote: post #129

I teach at a world ranking university in the UK which has decided that in order to have a 'standardised student experience' teachers are prohibited from running their own FLOSS setup when there are proprietary contracts in place. Sorry but MS Teams is not designed with teaching in mind. I've been advocating for Big Blue Button and Jitsi but effectively told to shut up. It's infuriating.

You could try to calculate some numbers on savings or "wasted hours because the corporate support is slow and wont fix our problems fast enough" to turn their heads around. Another pointer could be that the students could be involved in running some of the systems. Usually, in situations like yours, turning complaints or proposed solutions into numbers helps a lot.

> You could try to calculate some numbers on savings or "wasted hours because the corporate support is slow and wont fix our problems fast enough" to turn their heads around.

If the UK universities are anything like the US universities this is near impossible to do. Maybe COVID has changed some things but when I worked in the university system (state run) it was more about who could woo what administrator. The amount of waste and nepotism would make your head spin.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#183

Post by vertex-four »

barking wrote: post #173
vertex-four wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could an architect of great ability ever become wealthy if they weren’t able to just sell the same building design over and over again with no work for decades? Oh wait, that’s the norm.

Earlier you said copyright is unethical and also why should you be paid extra for work you did in the past . Architects have copyright to their work. They do sell the same plans over and over. No one can just copy their work without paying royalties or at least getting permission.

Wealthy, great architects make their fortunes on bespoke work. Even the plans they sell often have to be changed for each location - it's uncommon that the exact same building can be replicated in different locations over time, due to local planning constraints, preferences of their clients, new regulations, and so on.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#184

Post by michaelbrave »

fsflover wrote: post #148
rimliu wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to your question is in your comment. When you consistently have to pick commercial software over floss because of the usability, it makes sense to skip that step and go to the commercial software right away.

The problem with your reasoning is that often free software is better in usability.

I would say "it depends". Photoshop is easier to use than Gimp. But I would choose any Unix over Windows for development any day.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#185

Post by vertex-four »

barking wrote: post #168
fsflover wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned above, they also write free software for their devices. The price includes it.

Manufacturers commonly include software in their products but no one buys a Mercedes for its software.

Really? If the car contained no software, people would still buy it over alternatives that contain software at various levels for a better driving experience, comfort, and entertainment?

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#186

Post by ffdixon1 »

I am the product manager for BigBlueButton. While we implement most of the capabilities you would expect in a web conferencing system, we focus on giving the instructor many ways to engage students for learning. Being open source has enabled many schools around the world to setup and run their own BigBlueButton servers. Thanks to our community, we're localized in over 25 languages, provide a pure HTML5 interface, and have been deeply integrated into many of the most popular learning management systems. Our road map will continue of focus on the teacher/student engagement. Needless to say, Covid-19 made a lot people take a closer look at BigBlueButton. We've been working on it for 10+ years now, and we're very determined to make it the most effective platform for virtual classrooms and build upon our community.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#187

Post by saagarjha »

vikramkr wrote: post #181
ramshorns wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the importance of having complete control over the software an argument against using free software? Surely the best way to have control over it is to be able to read what it does and make it do what you want.

You'll be dealing with multiple contributors making changes if you want to upgrade to the latest version, with pull requests from all over the place. Nobody has time to read the entire codebase, so you have to audit and qualify all the random open source contributors instead of just the one group writing the code. You could start with a FLOSS codebase and then just keep any additions/modifications you make proprietar…

So you're really making the argument between writing something yourself versus using an open source solution, instead of picking between an open source and a proprietary solution.

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#188

Post by frabbit »

ffdixon1 wrote: post #186

I am the product manager for BigBlueButton. While we implement most of the capabilities you would expect in a web conferencing system, we focus on giving the instructor many ways to engage students for learning. Being open source has enabled many schools around the world to setup and run their own BigBlueButton servers. Thanks to our community, we're localized in over 25 languages, provide a pure HTML5 interface, and…

How can someone _subscribe_ to a hosted (by you or someone else) instance for a smallish (~20 participants max) class?

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#189

Post by vikramkr »

saagarjha wrote: post #187
vikramkr wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be dealing with multiple contributors making changes if you want to upgrade to the latest version, with pull requests from all over the place. Nobody has time to read the entire codebase, so you have to audit and qualify all the random open source contributors instead of just the one group writing the code. You could start with a FLOSS codebase and then just keep any additions/modifications you make proprietar…

So you're really making the argument between writing something yourself versus using an open source solution, instead of picking between an open source and a proprietary solution.

No, I'm comparing R and SAS for example in the above post. Same arguments apply. And again, these arent general to all cases, just a subset of highly regulated/conservative industries

Re: Teaching my MIT classes with only free/libre software

#190

Post by arunc »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #125
neilv wrote: post #76

For a professor to use only FLOSS when teaching CS students about software engineering seems entirely appropriate to me, and a good on-principle exercise. Consider the goals of universal accessibility of education, reproducible systems research that can be built upon, allowing students to explore and improve systems, techie obligations to promote privacy and security in information systems, and simply setting an exam…

Sussman is not just "a professor at MIT." He's one of the inventors of Scheme and one of the authors of SICP. And perhaps most apropos for this article, one of the founders of the FSF, along with of course RMS.

> Sussman is not just "a professor at MIT."

Your comment could be taken out of context here. I am no language expert, but it's better to use the form "Sussman is not only a professor at MIT, but also ...".

"just" is probably overused these days. It has replaced words like "please" and structures like above.

Contrast:

a) Can you just do that

b) Can you please get that

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