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Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

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Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#181

Post by buboard »

ipsum2 wrote: post #114
0zymandias wrote: post #52

Social media is a dead end. The results are depression and misinformation. Unless you believe truth can easily be determined, there is no tweak that Zuck and Jack can do to fix their platforms. At least Zuck is honest about it.

> Social media is a dead end. The results are depression and misinformation. Honest question. Is Reddit any different? Hacker News? Your average bulletin board?

Sure is. I doubt there s anyone who got depressed because their reddit karma was low. Posting an instagram selfie, however, and getting no likes -- that's tough.

"Social media" is a misnomer, in reality it's skinner boxes for humans

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#183

Post by koheripbal »

tayo42 wrote: post #28

What's with the cynicism in this posts? They're trying to make a point and bring awareness. Who cares how hard it is. At least they're doing something. To give them credit they're making a political statement at work when we're told not to talk politics at work.

"Bring awareness" to the internal functioning of their private corporation?

Don't work there. Quit.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#184

Post by koheripbal »

jlebar wrote: post #133
Lx1oG-AWb6h_ZG0 wrote: post #77

What is their end goal here? I certainly don’t want Mark Zuckerberg or any of his employees making decisions on what is considered newsworthy, especially on really important stuff like this. Even if you don’t personally like what is being said, the fact that it _is_ being said - and who is saying it - is an important point for people to know. The next time, it may be your own opinions that they’ll censor: Facebook ha…

Isn't the context also important for people to know? Like, if the President of the United States is saying something that's factually incorrect and might cause people e.g. not to register to vote (because they expect every Californian will be getting a ballot), is that context not also significant? Or, hypothetically -- but really if you think at this point that this is a stretch, come on -- if Trump claims without e…

It all comes down to who you trust to get the "correct" information from. Elected officials or corporations?

This isn't about Trump. We have a robust mechanism to remove elected officials - not corporations.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#185

Post by propelol »

ipsum2 wrote: post #114
0zymandias wrote: post #52

Social media is a dead end. The results are depression and misinformation. Unless you believe truth can easily be determined, there is no tweak that Zuck and Jack can do to fix their platforms. At least Zuck is honest about it.

> Social media is a dead end. The results are depression and misinformation. Honest question. Is Reddit any different? Hacker News? Your average bulletin board?

Reddit is better because people are more anonymous and don't have to mix their real life with their online life.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#186

Post by RHSeeger »

iscrewyou wrote: post #20
RHSeeger wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It's my understanding that doctors and lawyers have professional organizations, which aren't really the same thing as a union. 2. Unions and professional organizations, and really all organizations intended to consolidate power for one group over another, have both good points and bad. Obviously, unions have played an important role in improving worker safety and security, and that's great. But they've also contri…

> 1. It's my understanding that doctors and lawyers have professional organizations, which aren't really the same thing as a union. False. Professional organization give licensure. The union represents those who have licenses and or work for an agency where majority of those license holders work. > 2. ...Obviously, unions have played an important role in improving worker safety and security, and that's great. But the…

> Unions work like a democracy.

The problem is that "other things" come out of it too. Being required to pay someone for an hour of time to vacuum the carpet around your display at a trade show or plug in a lamp (because you're not allowed to do it yourself). People being threatened with physical violence (or actually being subject to it) because they don't agree with the union. These things do happen and, to many people, they are a serious concern.

> There's some shortcomings but the overall outcome is beneficial to the people being represented

That is a matter of opinion, and also ignores what's best for society as a whole (which also matters to a lot of people). Just because something is best for the workers doesn't mean it's the best choice for a functioning society.

I'm not arguing for or against unions here, just point out that they're not all rainbows and birthday cakes. Deciding to consider the facts and come up with your own opinion doesn't mean you're a bad person, or irrational.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#187

Post by danaris »

luckylion wrote: post #171
Apocryphon wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not necessarily desirable for somebody that currently has a compensation package that's far above the average. That doesn't happen in the SAG. Talent are expected to be paid a floor, but no ceiling is mandated. There's certainly stories in the news all of the time about incredible contracts getting signed by big stars. https://www.wrapbook.com/essential-guide-sag-rates/ > you don't get the negative side-effe…

> Why, if tech is supposed to be about innovation, must a union representing its workers must necessarily be tethered to the same faults as older institutions? I don't really follow that tech is about innovation, but that aside: I'm not saying a union would have be the same as all the other unions, I'm asking why it wouldn't and how to ensure that. The SAG is interesting, but I don't know whether it's very comparable…

> I'm asking why it wouldn't

Because a significant percentage of its hypothetical membership feel the same way you do about those problems.

> and how to ensure that.

Become a member. Vote for the union policies you think are important. Become a union leader. Etc.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#188

Post by danaris »

0xy wrote: post #46
jakelazaroff wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't support unions because unions drag everyone's wages to an average (I'd rather be a top performer and be paid accordingly). I see so many more people with this viewpoint than can statistically all be “top performers”. Given the low likelihood that any given person is a top performer, isn’t it better to organize in such a way that we all benefit?

Not when there's so much public information on wages. Compare your wage to the average among others in your location with your title. In my case, I earn about 110% more than the average salary for my title in my location. If I earned the average salary, I wouldn't be so high performing. I wouldn't care about my work beyond the minimum required to not be fired.

Why do you assume that a union would drag everyone's wages down to the pre-union average?

Even assuming (which is an incredible leap of logic) that a union for people who are famously a highly-paid and highly-competitive sector would want to "pay everyone the same" (which, frankly, no union on the planet actually does; the absolute worst in that vein is pay based purely on seniority), it would be vastly more likely that the union would be able to bargain with employers to increase that average salary—perhaps not to match the very top, but well above what it was before the union was formed.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#189

Post by danaris »

ramblerman wrote: post #155
tayo42 wrote: post #28

What's with the cynicism in this posts? They're trying to make a point and bring awareness. Who cares how hard it is. At least they're doing something. To give them credit they're making a political statement at work when we're told not to talk politics at work.

Politics are extremely divisive (definitely in the US at this point). Why is bringing them to the workplace a good idea? I mean we always talk about inclusion. What about people who have diverse political opinions.

"It's OK for police to murder unarmed civilians and the President to publicly support that" isn't a "diverse political opinion." It's a huge step on the road to tyrannical fascist dictatorship, and a massive violation of basic human rights.

Re: Hundreds of Facebook employees walk out as Zuckerberg plans town hall tomorrow

#190

Post by csharptwdec19 »

logicchains wrote: post #170
bildung wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are also the reason why most other industrial countries have mandatory holidays, sick leave, parental leave and so on.

That's not a very good argument in this case because the average Silicon Valley tech worker has a better take home salary than a programmer in those countries even after accounting for education/childcare and insurance costs.

Duh. That's the carrot to keep them in line. If they were paid closer to what devs outside SV were paid they might decide it's worth it to speak up.
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