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Mount Everest is visible from Kathmandu for first time in living memory

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Re: Mount Everest is visible from Kathmandu for first time in living memory

#181

Post by rorykoehler »

NJRBailey wrote: post #174
rorykoehler wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> protecting the environment and mitigating the climate crisis are two different, and only partially aligned efforts I wish more people understood this. Too many times conversation are hijacked by the CO2 discussion when really in the short term we should be focusing 99% of our efforts on bio-diversity preservation.

What are the benefits of focusing on biodiversity preservation? I can think of some things like food security but would global warming not also impact on those?

>but would global warming not also impact on those

Other way around. By focusing on biodiversity preservation we increase the robustness of the ecosystem and stop the dominoes from falling. Removing biodiversity cascades through the whole ecosystem and accelerates climate change. Also once bio-diversity is gone it's impossible to get back but we can always invent technology to extract CO2 from the atmosphere. Remember most of the species we're losing we don't even know they exist.

Re: Mount Everest is visible from Kathmandu for first time in living memory

#182

Post by TeMPOraL »

rorykoehler wrote: post #169
TeMPOraL wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only shows that, while CO₂ concentrations are the dominant control variable in the question of our long-term survival, the overall health of the environment is influenced by many, many more things, especially short-term. Now it is especially clear that protecting the environment and mitigating the climate crisis are two different, and only partially aligned efforts. Frequently, they're in opposition - which is w…

> protecting the environment and mitigating the climate crisis are two different, and only partially aligned efforts I wish more people understood this. Too many times conversation are hijacked by the CO2 discussion when really in the short term we should be focusing 99% of our efforts on bio-diversity preservation.

I sort of meant the reverse. You make a good point about importance of biodiversity downthread, but wrt. things like plastic pollution vs. CO₂, I'd argue we should just ignore the former. The reasoning is:

- We know the ecosystem is thoroughly polluted by microplastics, but there is no evidence that it's in any way harmful. It may be, but we haven't seen it so far.

- We know that without mitigation, climate change is an existential threat to civilization, that will materialize within the lifetime of many of us here.

Given that, we really can deal with microplastics later. Let's first stop the house from being on fire, and then focus on tyding it up.

Re: Mount Everest is visible from Kathmandu for first time in living memory

#183

Post by poooogles »

NJRBailey wrote: post #174
rorykoehler wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> protecting the environment and mitigating the climate crisis are two different, and only partially aligned efforts I wish more people understood this. Too many times conversation are hijacked by the CO2 discussion when really in the short term we should be focusing 99% of our efforts on bio-diversity preservation.

What are the benefits of focusing on biodiversity preservation? I can think of some things like food security but would global warming not also impact on those?

>What are the benefits of focusing on biodiversity preservation?

They're not always aligned. There's many more issues that come out of low biodiveristy than just those affected by climate change. One important one that's unrelated would be high biodiversity environments have more rich soils that are better for farming. Similarly more biodiverse environments are more resistant to disease; Ash dieback disease that affects the Ash in Europe appears not be fatal to the tree in mixed diverse forest [1].

Diverse ecosystems are also more resistant to climate change [2], so there's that too.

1. https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/... 2. https://news.mongabay.com/2015/11/greater-biodiversity-makes...

Re: Mount Everest is visible from Kathmandu for first time in living memory

#184

Post by rorykoehler »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #182
rorykoehler wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> protecting the environment and mitigating the climate crisis are two different, and only partially aligned efforts I wish more people understood this. Too many times conversation are hijacked by the CO2 discussion when really in the short term we should be focusing 99% of our efforts on bio-diversity preservation.

I sort of meant the reverse. You make a good point about importance of biodiversity downthread, but wrt. things like plastic pollution vs. CO₂, I'd argue we should just ignore the former. The reasoning is: - We know the ecosystem is thoroughly polluted by microplastics, but there is no evidence that it's in any way harmful. It may be, but we haven't seen it so far. - We know that without mitigation, climate change is…

I was under the impression that micorplastics are acidifying the ocean and in turn kicking off a process that removes oxygen and creates dead zones?

Re: Mount Everest is visible from Kathmandu for first time in living memory

#185

Post by lb1lf »

remus wrote: post #110
elcapitan wrote: post #93

Hm, is this actually true? According to this travel site, it was already possible before Corona? https://www.nestadventure.com/blog/mount-everest-from-kathma... "Contrary to everyone’s belief, Mount Everest can actually be seen from Kathmandu. The Chandragiri hills in Kathmandu offer a panoramic view of the Himalayan ranges and Mount Everest on a clear day. There are also viewpoints and hill stations just outside Kat…

The 'living memory' claim seems a bit far fetched, too. Let's pretend living memory means the last 100 years, that'd mean air pollution levels in 1920 wee so poor you couldn't see Everest from Kathmandu. I'm no expert, but I don't think Nepal and the surrounding area of China were industrialised at that time, and there definitely weren't many vehicles on the road at the time, so where would the air pollution have com…

> so where would the air pollution have come from?

-An ignorant (as I have never been within 1,000 miles of Kathmandu) guess is loads of wood-burning stoves; they soot like mad and can make Woody Allen[0] trust the air.

[0] When asked about NYC air pollution, he allegedly quipped that he didn't trust air he couldn't see.

Re: Mount Everest is visible from Kathmandu for first time in living memory

#186

Post by TeMPOraL »

akie wrote: post #177
akie wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We have and will use our authority to prevent the sale or re-sale of products that do not conform to the rule of law. Please be so kind to mention my name at your press conference, so that my citizens know their government stands up for their rights."

I know that the above response might seem like a pipe-dream to some, but let me assure you that there are governments and government officials that do stand up for the rule of law, and that are not easily bought by the highest bidder.

Yeah, but what I meant by my response is that, in this hypothetical scenario, the products themselves are fine. Nice, clean, safe, recyclable, whatnot. It's the manufacturing process that's polluting. You can't ban a product from being sold in your country on the grounds that manufacturing it in another country is an ecological disaster. Meanwhile, all those jobs are highly desirable (not just for your personal benefit as a politician, but also for the benefit of your constituents and your nation's economy). So there's an incentive to relax the environmental protection rules a little bit. A corporation can use this to play countries off each other - if you stand fast by your existing rules, and your neighbour does not, all the plants and all the jobs and all the economic boost will go to your neighbour, making your country weaker on the international scene.

There's no bribing involved in this scenario. Just plain market competition at nation-state level.

Re: Mount Everest is visible from Kathmandu for first time in living memory

#187

Post by growlist »

Within a few days of the lockdown I noticed how clear the air was (south coast UK). There's a hill 5 miles or so away with houses on the top that I can now make out individually, which wasn't the case before. Where are our (environmentally friendly) atmosphere processors? Even if we all switched to EVs, we'd still have tyre and brake dust being generated.

Re: Mount Everest is visible from Kathmandu for first time in living memory

#188

Post by TeMPOraL »

rorykoehler wrote: post #184
TeMPOraL wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sort of meant the reverse. You make a good point about importance of biodiversity downthread, but wrt. things like plastic pollution vs. CO₂, I'd argue we should just ignore the former. The reasoning is: - We know the ecosystem is thoroughly polluted by microplastics, but there is no evidence that it's in any way harmful. It may be, but we haven't seen it so far. - We know that without mitigation, climate change is…

I was under the impression that micorplastics are acidifying the ocean and in turn kicking off a process that removes oxygen and creates dead zones?

I've never heard about that. As far as I know, acidification is caused by the oceans picking up CO₂ from the atmosphere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

Re: Mount Everest is visible from Kathmandu for first time in living memory

#189

Post by AnthonyMouse »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #186
akie wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that the above response might seem like a pipe-dream to some, but let me assure you that there are governments and government officials that do stand up for the rule of law, and that are not easily bought by the highest bidder.

Yeah, but what I meant by my response is that, in this hypothetical scenario, the products themselves are fine. Nice, clean, safe, recyclable, whatnot. It's the manufacturing process that's polluting. You can't ban a product from being sold in your country on the grounds that manufacturing it in another country is an ecological disaster. Meanwhile, all those jobs are highly desirable (not just for your personal benef…

> You can't ban a product from being sold in your country on the grounds that manufacturing it in another country is an ecological disaster.

Why not? Constituents like it because it brings back the jobs that left because moving them out allowed companies to avoid environmental regulations, which they can now not avoid either way if they want to sell in your country and so might as well bring the jobs back.

Re: Mount Everest is visible from Kathmandu for first time in living memory

#190

Post by 101404 »

pmorici wrote: post #122
remus wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'living memory' claim seems a bit far fetched, too. Let's pretend living memory means the last 100 years, that'd mean air pollution levels in 1920 wee so poor you couldn't see Everest from Kathmandu. I'm no expert, but I don't think Nepal and the surrounding area of China were industrialised at that time, and there definitely weren't many vehicles on the road at the time, so where would the air pollution have com…

I agree with you, but pollution could have come from burning wood or coal for heating and cooking it isn’t all from industry.

That leads to the next question: why would Corona-stay-at-home stop people from cooking food or heating their homes?
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