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Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

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Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#181

Post by dagmx »

ses1984 wrote: post #13
bearjaws wrote: post #11

I hate the notion of "10x developer". It focuses on hiring the best person, rather than firing individuals who undermine the team. The reality is, there are some 1x developers, and some .5x developers. Even worse though are the -1x developers. So many times I see a corporate culture of firing = bad, so lets just try to find someone who is a "10x", when really all you need is to remove the people who cause more work f…

I knew two 10x developers at my previous job. One of them was humble and a great mentor and elevated everyone around him. One was a grump who made everyone around him feel stupid. Imo toxicity is independent from productivity.

I’ll add that toxicity is not unique to 10x. Your last line covers that but many people tend to think 1x people are necessarily more humble by virtue of knowing their output relative to the team. (Assuming everyone believes in the 1x/10x thing)

I’ve known plenty of mediocre devs who would be a 0.5x but thought they should be a 10x and made up the difference in unfounded confidence.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#183

Post by swader999 »

dleslie wrote: post #146
Symbiote wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> married with kids Can't you just lie about this? It's none of their business. Or tell white lies -- kids, but "pretty old" or "at college" or whatever.

I make it a habit of trying not to be dishonest. :)

Them asking is unethical, illegal in some jurisdictions.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#184

Post by collyw »

noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

I have noticed that I was the 10x developer - when I was working on a system that I designed an built. Now I am fixing someone else code and he gets 10 times more done than me. Is that because he is smarter than me and get more done, or because he is worse than me and writes code that is obscure for someone else to understand quickly? Obviously its a subjective question, but volume of features completed isn't the only measure. Technical debt can be fairly subtle.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#185

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

swilliamsio wrote: post #71
jki275 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know plenty of devs who are 40+ and still writing code and getting paid well to do it. In fact I worked with a consultant who was over 60 not too long ago. I am almost certain there is something else going on here other than your age. In fact, I've never once been asked my age in an interview, and I'm a couple of years into my second career doing this after I retired from my first.

Even if the interviewers were concerned about your age, you'd never be asked how old you were in an interview. That's grounds for a discriminatory law suit basically anywhere in the world.

>That's grounds for a discriminatory law suit basically anywhere in the world.

Not true, in German speaking countries having your photo, birthday and work/graduation dates in your resume is basically mandatory, especially when applying at big established companies.

Omitting them could have your resume disqualified as HR might think you're trying to hide something or that you haven't bothered to do it right.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#186

Post by swader999 »

bearjaws wrote: post #11

I hate the notion of "10x developer". It focuses on hiring the best person, rather than firing individuals who undermine the team. The reality is, there are some 1x developers, and some .5x developers. Even worse though are the -1x developers. So many times I see a corporate culture of firing = bad, so lets just try to find someone who is a "10x", when really all you need is to remove the people who cause more work f…

Any project or company that needs a hero to save the day is a warning sign. Approach with caution.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#187

Post by kmonsen »

theli0nheart wrote: post #169
hoorayimhelping wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confidence and desperation hardly ever align. Confident people who plan don't get desperate. Desperate people don't make good decisions. People who let themselves reach levels of desperation are either extremely unlucky (unlikely, but not someone you want on your team regardless) or chronically make bad decisions. At the worst, they're a person who chronically makes bad decisions and thinks they're unlucky. Standard:…

> Confident people who plan don't get desperate. Desperate people don't make good decisions. People who let themselves reach levels of desperation are either extremely unlucky (unlikely, but not someone you want on your team regardless) or chronically make bad decisions. At the worst, they're a person who chronically makes bad decisions and thinks they're unlucky. Disclaimer: I'm saying this for your own benefit, but…

Just realize you can both be right. Everything you say is true, but parent is also. Confidence and the projection of ability to get the job done is important. Also when you are 40+ chances are you are going to be hired as a senior developer who has influence on team culture, this makes confidence and positivity even more important.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#188

Post by swader999 »

ses1984 wrote: post #13
bearjaws wrote: post #11

I hate the notion of "10x developer". It focuses on hiring the best person, rather than firing individuals who undermine the team. The reality is, there are some 1x developers, and some .5x developers. Even worse though are the -1x developers. So many times I see a corporate culture of firing = bad, so lets just try to find someone who is a "10x", when really all you need is to remove the people who cause more work f…

I knew two 10x developers at my previous job. One of them was humble and a great mentor and elevated everyone around him. One was a grump who made everyone around him feel stupid. Imo toxicity is independent from productivity.

The first type you mentioned is a rare gem that should be treasured.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#189

Post by dagmx »

pjc50 wrote: post #50
bearjaws wrote: post #11

I hate the notion of "10x developer". It focuses on hiring the best person, rather than firing individuals who undermine the team. The reality is, there are some 1x developers, and some .5x developers. Even worse though are the -1x developers. So many times I see a corporate culture of firing = bad, so lets just try to find someone who is a "10x", when really all you need is to remove the people who cause more work f…

I too have met "-1x" developers, but if someone like that persists then either they have political cover or they are very careful about who they show their bad side to. The worst case is if they were hired as a "10x" developer, at which point they can't be fired without their hiring manager admitting they made a mistake.

In some cases, it’s because the cost of letting them go and hiring+training another individual is daunting. Both monetarily and in time. You also don’t know if the new hire will necessarily be better. There’s also other factors like firing someone doesn’t necessarily get you back a headcount immediately. Visa caps also play into this because for certain roles we legitimately could not find enough candidates locally, so letting someone go means you couldn’t find someone till the following year.

I’ve been in this situation where I’ve had to convince my managers that the teams I managed would be better served without certain individuals and I’d rather hire someone new. Even when the entire management chain agreed, it came down to the issues above.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#190

Post by jki275 »

ghaff wrote: post #175
standardUser wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leave dates off of your education on your resume and LinkedIn. The only use of those dates is to age you. No one is going to ask about it.

I hear this from time to time. I'm not sure I buy it. 1.) Most people can do math. Unless you're also going to be evasive more or less throughout your resume about how long you were in roles and the like, people are going to figure out your rough age/general seniority pretty easily. And at some point it looks evasive. Maybe you're trying to hide some big gap that exists for some reason. 2.) But let's say you do scrub…

Your #3 might be the real key to all this.

I rarely apply for a job cold. I've nearly always had some point of networking somewhere.

Even for the job I have now, for which I did just send in a resumé and an application cold, I have some very specific key words on my resumé that the hiring manager recognized and then started asking if I knew person x and person y and so on and we discovered that we have a bunch of prior colleagues in common, which also made me extremely useful to the organization in ways they don't advertise (I already knew this going into the interview, as I did my research).

Finding a job is very much about market segment, branding, and networking. If you're "just another web dev" and have no other meaningful skills and no friends, then maybe finding work after 40 is hard -- I wouldn't really know. If you're a C++ guru with an MS, an embedded dev, a specwar comms tech, etc, you get really valuable to some people because you've got such a broad set of experiences, and they don't give a rat's ass how old you are as long as you can still hobble in to work some days.

And sometimes they'll hire you for your network as well, which isn't all bad either.

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