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Saving money on international payments as a remote freelancer

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Re: Saving money on international payments as a remote freelancer

#181

Post by chx »

rvnx wrote: post #103
mft_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you able to offer any insight (top level, non-confidential, obvs) into how TransferWise works, behind-the-scenes? i.e. how do they actually enact the exchange of the funds? Do they have a contract with one of the big investment banks? Do they work directly via Forex markets? Can they leverage their scale now to minimise actual exchange costs – for example internally matching up (say) a one customer transferring U…

In reality, internalised or not, TransferWise makes lot of money in fees. On InteractiveBrokers for example, you pay +/- 2.33 USD in total to convert 100'000 USD to EUR (+ 1 USD extra for withdrawal if you already did one this month). TransferWise charges end-user 900 USD + spread for the same operation, which is rather comical when you see their ads "banks are scamming you"

> TransferWise charges end-user 900 USD + spread

They don't charge spread. That's the entire point of Transferwise.

> On InteractiveBrokers for example, you pay +/- 2.33 USD in total to convert 100'000 USD to EUR

My understanding is that Interactive Brokers allows access to the forex market , indeed with a low fee, however Transferwise will use mid-market rate which is unattainable via the forex market.

It's trivially visible on Transferwise what are you paying, where can I see the same for Interactive Brokers ?

Re: Saving money on international payments as a remote freelancer

#183

Post by ric2b »

decentralised wrote: post #75
cik wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has always been more of the dream of BTC than the reality. Transferring BTC around can cost 0.1 - 0.4% which becomes quite expensive. The cost of a wire transfer from Canada to the various countries I make them is a flat $36 - though receiving fees can be as high as $15 (CAD). That means that BTC only makes sense if you're transferring less than $5100. But moreover, BTC back to fiat is significantly more expensi…

The costs for transactions are not fixed to a percentage of the total amount sent but on the size of the transaction and the network congestion. Moving one billion USD worth of BTC can cost as little as 0.065 BTC or ~440 USD. https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/ne... https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/4410c8d14ff9f87ceeed1d65cb...

I'd like to note that they overpaid ridiculously on that fee, they probably just didn't care about the fee since it was a rounding error.

Even $15 would have been too much, looking at other transactions in the block.

Re: Saving money on international payments as a remote freelancer

#184

Post by shadowprofile77 »

StavrosK wrote: post #167
traceroute66 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"fairness to customers is non-negotiable" .... yeah, unless you run a VoIP company. In which case you get told VoIP is against TransferWise AUP and you get told your business account is suspended permanently. And yes, we are talking about a reputable long-established VoIP company here, not some fly-by-night spam operation. Similarly, the TransferWise business account is a bit of a joke. Features that should have been…

I have similarly been bitten by them. I tried to test the service by transferring $40ish or something small like that that from one of my accounts to another, and they told me they're not doing it and are shutting my account permanently, but they can't tell me why. This was my first transfer on my first ever account with them, it's not like I had any prior history with them. Woo.

This. It is so absolutely, positively, disgustingly maddening to see companies like Stripe, Paypal, now apparently transferwise as well, based on this and other comments I've read, simply freeze accounts for seemingly trivial "violations" of some obscure TOC and then not only permanently ban you for what was in 99% of cases an honest mistake, but also simply refuse to state why they do so. What is the bloody fucking point of rules that cause you to kick off customers if you can't even give some transparency on how those rules work. It's insane and even if it complies with some bullshit government regulations on money laundering, grotesquely shitty of major financial services companies. Users should at least be given the benefit of the doubt and told why they're being punished before being booted.

I'd love to see some insider of these companies explain the obsessive habit of booting and then refusing to explain a single reason why.

Re: Saving money on international payments as a remote freelancer

#185

Post by adanto6840 »

puszczyk wrote: post #127
ransom1538 wrote: post #121

FYI American worker: When an international employee makes $40 per hour and they perform two weeks of work -- their US employer sends them 80 * 40 = $3200. No Federal Income Tax Withholding, no Social Security and Medicare deductions, no Federal Unemployment (FUTA) Tax, no State withholdings, nothing. Employers love it. No drama. Just straight gross cash.

Well, they likely need to pay income tax and social insurance in their own country. The burden has just been shifted to them. To be fair, I’m not 100% sure how this works in the US, in PL where I’m from and probably in all of the EU countries if you are on a job contract then the employer pays the taxes and social insurance for you. If you are self-employed / freelance you have a business registered in your name and…

Works pretty much the same in the US, too.

When we pay US contract labor, we generally send the "gross cash amount". The US contractor actually has to fill out a form upon commencement that says how their taxes & social insurance will be paid; at the end of the year they get a form from the businesses they did work for which shows total paid, and they use that to do their taxes.

Same thing for international contractors -- they just have to deal with their local jurisdiction's taxes, instead of the US IRS.

Re: Saving money on international payments as a remote freelancer

#186

Post by kinnth »

We've been doing this for 3 years and we sit within EUR, GBP and USD. Rather than doing immediate conversion I sit and wait for various rates to become profitable, im happy being in any of the 3 currencies and so usually oscillate between USD and GBP which has been very profitable in the last year making around 10% net over 3 transactions. Can highly recommend TransferWise.

Re: Saving money on international payments as a remote freelancer

#187

Post by fennecfoxen »

decentralised wrote: post #147
fennecfoxen wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Fedwire Funds Service" is the Federal Reserve's wire transfer payment system used to move USD. I'm actually writing an integration to it right this moment (the old fixed-width format, not the new XML one, yay). Naturally this interface is not available directly to retail customers, but if you actually send a wire transfer from your bank, this is the system you will use. Your bank will generally make this availab…

Im in the EU and we don't have Fedwire here. I can tell you that ABN AMRO charges me ~10 euros for transferring ~200 eur to the UK (with conversion to GBP). Generally speaking I'm quite familiar with payment infra in Europe, I've worked on it for ~20 years after all.

I am not sure how to engage with this reply. It is of course unsurprising that European banks do not have integrations with the Federal Reserve for moving USD. European banks often have access to international systems like SWIFT and SEPA, and various national payments systems, instead.

I have precious little information to offer you on the workings of European funds transfer services, however; I posted here to discuss Fedwire specifically, since you brought it up.

Re: Saving money on international payments as a remote freelancer

#188

Post by plantain »

Youden wrote: post #157

FWIW, where possible, I advise having both a TransferWise account and a Revolut or Interactive Brokers account. TransferWise is fantastic for receiving money. They have local bank accounts in USD, EUR, GBP, AUD, NZD and PLN. However for sending money and converting money, their fees can really suck: for $10k USD -> EUR (EURUSD is one of the most liquid forex pairs), they charge 81 USD in fees, or %0.8. Even for local…

FYI Transferwise doesn't have NZD accounts currently, and they have no schedule for restoring them.

Re: Saving money on international payments as a remote freelancer

#189

Post by snappieT »

Youden wrote: post #157

FWIW, where possible, I advise having both a TransferWise account and a Revolut or Interactive Brokers account. TransferWise is fantastic for receiving money. They have local bank accounts in USD, EUR, GBP, AUD, NZD and PLN. However for sending money and converting money, their fees can really suck: for $10k USD -> EUR (EURUSD is one of the most liquid forex pairs), they charge 81 USD in fees, or %0.8. Even for local…

The Interactive Brokers $10/month inactivity fee is (kinda) no more - they have a new product called IBKR Lite that has no minimum balance or maintenance fee, but still supports forex: https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=45500

Re: Saving money on international payments as a remote freelancer

#190

Post by snappieT »

mcsweena wrote: post #142

If anyone is interested, CurrencyFair are another excellent way to save money on international payments. Similar to Transferwise, you can send money fast from one currency to another at the current exchange rate with far less fees than a bank. They also have a peer-to-peer element, where you can choose your own exchange rate and wait for another customer (sending money in the opposite direction) to accept that rate.…

+1 on recommending CurrencyFair - I've found that their fees tend to be lower than TransferWise and I've always had great service from them.
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